That usually happens when they called preflop with A-rag or K-rag and flop TPNK, because then they simply put you on QQ to justify the call down.

Will the guy with the 3x hand bet the river, or is he too passive? If he's capable of vbetting river to ~$200 I'd possibly flat the turn to bring in UTG and c/r the river. If not I'd rather raise to $215 here and then bet like 680 on river.

Vs a grumpy old man who is action player and has been playing forever. Can play ok poker but goes on tilt is horribad and calls with any peace. Villain has between 250-300

Hero is bb with qq, limps around villain makes it $7, hero raises to $27, folds around villain snapcalls as expected.

Flop 2 6 8 two clubs. Hero open ships all in. Villain says **** you if thats how you want to play and snapcalls with ace eight offsuit. I know he is calling with anypeace of this flop so I might as well charge the max. ty come again.

This villain is a reg, early to mid 20s. Arabic, big gambler on black jack and other casino games and pushes the chips around. Plays fearless poker and has some understanding of the game but also makes some really bad calls when it's obvious he is beat and obviously bluffs or overvalues his hand in alot of spots. At some point he will always have a ton of chips infront of him. Following are a few hands vs him.



villain raises 14, hero calls with 94
Flop is 4 4 q rainbow. Villain openships flop for 350 into 30 dollar pot. Hero calls. Villain turns over 66 and says oh **** you called me with 94wtf. What was I supposed to do I had to protect my hand.


hand 2: villain raises to 12 or 13, another player comments saying you should just ship it. Hero looks down at Ace Ace, hero says ship it eigh, and ships 200. Villain calls with ak.


Same day villain comes back after saying "I"ll remember that" makes it clear he came back to get revenge and stack me and sits down on my left.

hero has 89 and opens preflop, villain flats in the blind.

flop: is 7 high with two clubs.
-villain checks I c bet around half pot, villain calls.
turn is offsuit 9 I now have topair, villain checks I bet 2/3rd pot, villain check/raise for 60 more. Hero ships for like 140 more, villain calls with a7 offsuit.

holy **** where do you play? I haven't seen moves like that live in years and years.

I refuse to go and take a leak when I'm on a table like this

No VILLIAN wasnt that passive but I wanted his stack if he had a 3....V called the extra 400 then called my all in the dark with A3 ....then says to dealer"how did u put the 5 up yo????

Calling the flop is not spew in his example since 80% of preflop raisers are cbetting with 100% of their opening range. That opening range will be weighted towards AK, AQ, AJs, KQs type hands that 33 is ahead of.

These same villains will then often NOT double barrel if they miss. So OPs line in that hand is optimal and not*spew.

You misunderstand (or I wasn't clear). You are right , BBs preflop call was horrific, what I was talking about when I said "marginal hand" was that the blinds "in general" will call preflop w marginal hands because they feel that are priced in...

Well since villain opened 66, I'm going to assume he'll also have hands like T9s, 98s, A9s, and maybe A5s and A4s. And obv every set. And it's silly to assume that villain c-bets overcards 100% of the time, especially is he's any capable.

Now how does 33 do against that range, when you're trying to bluff catch and even in the best case scenario villain will still get there like 13% on the turn?

And when you're behind you have 2 outs, but 1 of them is a spade which isn't ideal. And since villain raised with 66, he can obv have 55/44, so have fun occasionally turning a set and then losing your stack.

It sounds like I'm pessimistic here, but you have to analyze all scenarios, and if you think calling with an underpair to the board on a two tone flop isn't spew, I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah, except hero turned his hand into a bluff on the turn and got called by a better pair because hero wasn't repping much of anything.

In that hand villain clearly outplayed hero, who made a bad call on the flop.

^^^ fwiw, I agree with all of the above. was going to post something similar and sabr beat me to it.

So basically, whenever you call a raise preflop and the board is 954 w a FD and villain cbets you snap fold if you miss?

This is the entire reason why cbetting is profitable. Please tell me, how do you adjust to cbetting? This hand is actually a poster child for how 33 should be played heads up vs the preflop raiser when we have position. I created this hand to discuss "typical" hands. And typically,

#1 villains' opening range in EP is USUALLY going to be AK, AQ, KQs, JJ+ do you agree or disagree?
#2 villains are going to cbet 80% of the time with 100% of their opening range do you agree or disagree?
#3 villains that whiff and cbet are rarely firing a second barrel if called do you agree or disagree?

It just happens that he posted an atypical hand in which his villain opened w 66 UTG which is not the norm in LLSNL. So, it seems my "typical" thread is fastly descending into the 2+2 norm of specialized cases which was the exact opposite of what I wanted to achieve here.

You mean if I have 33/22?

Yes, I snap-fold. It's also why I usually don't even call the pre-flop raise with these hands if the pot is not multi-way. 33/22 simply play terribly on nearly every flop where you don't have a set. Your pair is never going to be good if villain also hits a pair somewhere along the way. Paired flops like T-4-4 are best for you if you don't hit a set, but it also presents the additional problem that sometimes the board will double pair, leaving you with nothing.

I'd rather float with ANYTHING other than 33/22 on a 954 FD flop. Examples of hands I'd rather call than 33/22:

AQo, A7s (with a backdoor flush), 86s, 52o.

That last hand isn't in my range, but I included it just to show that I'd rather have any flopped pair + random kicker than an underpair. When you flop a pair it reduces the same set to one combo and gives you more outs vs an overpair.

So yes, you can exploit me by making me fold a baby pair every time I don't hit the flop.

Come sit at my table on my right and try to c-bet me every time and see how well that works.

1/2 nl. I perceived villain as uber tight until the hand before. I flop a straight w/67o in a multi way raised pot. C/c flop and crai on turn . Villain calls w/ace high, berated me for my silly call preflop and reloads for $200.
Very next hand villain raises to $15 and I 3bet $40 w kq of hearts. Flop comes AKx w2 hearts. Villain jams his whole stack in almost instantly. Can I call?

It's two pair! Which two? Who cares, it's two pair!

Villain is a weak tight player in a room full of really bad maniacs and lp's. Definitely capable of overvaluing a made hand.
Stack$180
Hero is winner and villain knows it. Have been playing very tight all night d/ t cards and table conditions.
Stack $275

HAND
Hero button straddles $5.
5 calls including villain in CO. Hero checks j8o.
Pot: $30
Flop: jc8s2s
Checks to villain who bets $7. Hero raises to $30. Villain raises to $100. Hero shoves. Villain snap calls.
Villain range j2, j8, 22, 88, axs.
Villain rolls j2.
Villain catches his 2 on river and does a dance. Later claims he thought he was ahead the whole way.

Villain mistakes
1) limpin in with j2.
2) betting $7 into $30 with a fd and gutter on board with 6 players in the hand.
3) never even stopping to think about what hero is 4 bet shoving that might just have top and bottom 2 crushed.

To a fish. 2 pair is 2 pair and it beats 1 pair. For them that's enough to stack off even in the most ridiculous spots.

+1. I have a player in my home game who lives by this mantra ("2 pair is 2 pair and it beats 1 pair"), even if he "two pair" is pocket fives on an AA893 board.

I'm gonna get him this time

Hero has been running over the table for hours. Stack at $600.
Villain: giant of a man at least 400 lb. and one of the worst to ever play the game. Will chase with Atc. C/c a river with 2nd nuts. Slammed cards down and yelled nuts! Didn't care to reraise his "nuts" for his last $100. Stack $700 (all of it his). He looks like Jabba the hut. I mean it.

Hand-
Hero bets $15 in ep gets two callers inc. Jabba.

Flop- jj9dd ($48)
Hero bets $35. Fold. Jabba raises to $75 an mutters "I'm gonna **** him Up this time." (hero didn't hear this)
Hero calls.
Turn- Jd Jh 6d 4c ($198)
Hero checks. Jabba bets $150. Hero calls.
River- Jd Jh 6d 4c 2c ($448)
Hero checks. Jabba bets $200. Hero calls. Jabba shows 68o and begins to throw racks at the wall.

Jabba mistakes-
1. Playing Atc oop trying to run down aggressive annoying lag.
2. Ignoring all logic and situational considerations when choosing to bluff I.e. hero obviously had some kind of hand he was willing to play with.
3. Fixating on the $ amount of his bluff instead of realizing that he was offering 3.25:1 on a river call he was hoping wouldn't be made.

Fish play emotionally. The ones with The guts to stand up to a pushy player often do so out of anger instead of logic and sound play. Don't be a fish. Leave your emotions at the door.

I don't even know why I did this!

Haha awesome. FYI my phone edited out that hero has qq.

I witnessed so many donktastic hands my last session I don't even know where to start...

7' tall black guy with nice jewelry and hot gf sits down with $500 in a $300max buy in game. Nobody says anything. He spews off his $500 playing 80%+ of hands by randomly donk betting air after limp/calling raises. Example

7' guy limps, russian fish raises to $12, I flat AQo. 1 more call, 7' guy calls.

Flop KQ4r, 7' guy donks $25, russian calls, I call.

Turn KQ4T, check, check, check.

River KQ4TJ backdoor hearts get there. 7' guy bets his last $120, russian folds I snap call.

7' guy: 89o. Says "oh I didn't think anyone had the ace"

Basically the fish here has no concept of what other players cards are, and will only think about his own hand. "Oh, I made a straight, that's a good hand, time to bet".

------------------

Russian fish in the above example was spewing the whole game as well so I moved to his left when I got the chance and this hand happened:

Russian limps $3, I limp T8 and 2 others limp.

Flop Q97r Sb bets $18, Russian fish calls, I call, button calls.

Turn QJ97cc. Checks to Russian, he bets $30, I raise to $100, rest fold, Russian calls.

River QJ974 no flush. Russian jams his last $175 in, I snap call he mucks.

Hopeless bluffing after missing a draw. The fish will occasionally hopelessly bluff off their stack when they miss a draw. Again no thought process about opponent hand ranges. The fish mind is often incapable of thinking beyond "I hit my hand, time to bet" or "I missed my hand, the only way to win is to bluff".

However, I raised the turn into 2 players so it was obvious I had a made hand. Even a novice player could see I was repping a big hand. River changed nothing so a bluff is hopeless.

---------------

Later the same Russian pulled off this amazing hand:

Russian raises to $12 with J4, a few calls including one young guy with A6

Flop T93

Russian bets $12, guy with A6 calls.

Turn T938

Russian bets $24, guy with A6 raises to $75, Russian calls.

River T9387

Russian bets $150, young guy jams for $225 and loses with the bottom Straight flush.

This hand is exactly what I want this thread to avoid. If you would have taken the time to read the OP, you would note that I want this thread to be comprised of TYPICAL LLSNL hands and situations that we witness and I don't want to get bogged in the crap we only see once a year or even once per lifetime like the Quads you posted getting beat by a royal flush.

To that end, here is a situation I witnessed yesterday.

4 to a Straight

Game 2/5nl, effective stacks $500

V1, super donk passive station and just completely clueless. limp calls anything under $45 and will chase with ANYTHING any pair or any draw.

V2, Typical ABC player knows how to play basic +EV poker

V3, Semi-donkish who thinks he's god's gift to poker because he knows basic ABC play but is prone to making ******ed moves in ******ed spots


V1 is BB, V2 is UTG and limps, 5 way action V3 calls from CO, V1 cks his option

flop($25) K T 2 rainbow.
V1 chks, V2 chks, V3 chks (everyone else checks)

Turn($25) Jr
V1 chks, V2 bets $25, (everyone else folds) V3 calls, V1 calls.

River ($100) Q
V1 chks, V2 bets $50, V3 raises to $150 and says, "guess we are chopping", V1 tanks and then calls, V2 raises to $250, V3 folds, V1 tanks and then calls

V1 shows J9o
V2 shows AQo and wins with nut straight

Analysis

V1 made a classic LLSNL mistake. He called the turn because he caught a piece of the board but he gave absolutely no thought to the board texture or how its pretty much impossible for his hand to improve without giving another villain a better hand. When the river came, again, he thought in terms of relative strength "I gotz a straight, straight is a good hand, must call ". Nevermind that he got the idiot end of a 4 card straight.

V2 did the classic limp UTG with AQ probably hoping to 3bet pre but it limped around. He turned the nuts and just bet his hand straight for value. On river, normally his $50 bet would be a good bet because it can still get weaker hands to call or even induce a spewtard to make a move. However, he had the super drooler station in the hand and he should have just shoved river because the station would have called it with any made hand (yes the station was that bad).

V3 made the mistake of not understanding which spots are good spots to bluff . This was a horrible spot to bluff because V2 is never betting out without a straight and no one is folding the nuts. Similarly, the other villain in the hand was a ******ed station who is biologically incapable of folding a made hand.

Level 1 thinker vs my set: EZ game

Villain is talking about his home game and how they sent a player to the WSOP this year. He also shows inexperience in a casino environment: he doesn't know what a straddle is, or why he didn't have to post his blind when someone bought the button.

Villain raises to $7 in a 1-2 game, a small amount. 1 caller, I call with 44, one more caller in the blinds. Pot about $29.

Flop 48T, flush draw. Villain bets $25, a big bet. This is an overpair like always. It gets to me, the clear move with a set is to raise now before the board gets bad. Also, many villains at this level simply cannot fold an overpair.

I raise to $100, he shoves $85 more, I call. He has QQ. I win.

Moral of the story: don't slowplay, don't lose value, don't let bad turn cards kill the action. Flop a set and raise until you're all in.

There is one mistake I see all the time that otherwise pretty good players make, especially at the lower stakes. They simply fall into a mode of playing ABC without assessing the players. Most low limit players aren't very good, are there for the recreation, and probably aren't gonna improve. For the most part, ABC will get the money.

However, they fail to consider that, maybe, not all their opponents are fish. I saw this happen the last session I played at 1/2 NLHE. Right off, I spotted the pretty young lady (PYL) sitting directly across the table as someone who needed some extra attention. Three seats to her right, we had Mr. Solid Player, who'd accumulated a pretty decent stack when I bought in. Mr. Solid sat there, with those thingies in his ears, and not paying attention.

The PYL's room mate came over, saying that her luck wasn't running so good at a 2/5 table, and would PYL like to take it, as she'd been on the waiting list. PYL says: "This game's rich enough". I heard her say it, and I know she knew I heard it. I wasn't the only one paying attention, and I knew she'd identified me as someone to be wary of, and we stayed out of each other's way. Meanwhile, Mr. Solid is playing around with his MP3 player.

A few hands later, Mr. Solid limped pre, and PYL put in a small raise and he called with J9-off. Flop hits: T, 8 7. He led out for $30, and PYL minraised, and he called. Turn brings 3, and Mr. Solid led out for $50. PYL cuts out a stack and a half and raises $100 on top. As he's reaching for his chips I'm thinking: "No you damn fool! You're not playing the usual fish here". No question about it: I'd been paying attention, and I knew she would never put that kind of money out there without the nuts. Any hand that would have given her an overpair to that flop would have been raised bigger pre. AT was out of the question, as she would not fool with a flop like that with just a very vulnerable TPTK on such a draw heavy board. She'd've raised bigger with a set to price out a straight draw.

The river brought some irrelevant red card that didn't pair the board. Mr. Solid led out for $100, and PYL pauses just long enough to decide what he'll call, and raises. He called, tabling his flopped straight, and got shown acey-deucy, both clubs. Now he's got a stack and a black: right back to one buy, all that night's work up till now gone, because he wasn't paying attention. (Later, she said she'd played with him before, and he really was pretty good.)

In another session, this older lady raised UTG, and I called on the button with A, 7. Given the raise and position, I knew her range was literally AA, KK, AK. The flop came off Q, Q, 7 -- not exactly what I wanted to see. On the flop, she led off for $100 into a pot with $25 in it. The only hand I could put her on with a queen in it was pocket queens. AQ was out of the question (she may have limped AQss, but would have thrown in AQ-off). It's 4 : 3 in my favor she's got Big Slick, and I'm getting a little better than even money on that call. That, and the fact that the body language is telling me: "Dammit! Big Slick missed again!". It's early in the session, and I won't have but $35 left if I call, so I ship it. She called, we show, and that's what she had: Big Slick. We wait for the dealer to turn some cards: a queen that doesn't help me at all. Then she hits her escape card: the case queen. Split pot, and that hand cost me $1.50.

Another case where the ABC player wasn't paying attention to the competition, and failed to realize that I might have observed her early position preflop raising range, and just might try to exploit that knowledge. Desperation bluffing also is not a good idea, especially when she had no way of knowing whether I just might call such a hugely disproportionate bet.

The latest edition of Card Player has a feature: "Crushing Live Poker with Twitter"

Of course, the converse is that sometimes you run into a player who can think. And you'd better know who they are. Like that tweet says, I don't want to over estimate the competition, but I will not assume that everyone's a fish without confirming it. If your "fish" isn't as fishy as you think, you don't stack him: he stacks you.

Food for thought.

I've noticed that some male players are just biologically incapable of respecting female players and think of female players as drooling idiots. I've also seen male players whose egos just would not let them make the obvious fold to a female player who is playing their hand face up as the stone cold nuts...

I wonder if Mr. Solid falls into the above category?

When that club peels off on the turn, and she raises, her hand is face up as a made flush. I mean, we aren't talking runner runner back door here and its not like there is an Ace on the board. So how does Mr. Solid miss that?

Well, what I find to be a reason among many male players is that they just don't respect female players and this goes double for younger/hotter female players.

Again, just food for thought...

In my experience it's because I have yet to meet a female player who was even remotely good. So I have this stereotype to start. I have begun tellin myself when I see one not to go too far with my assumptions until I see her play. Usually its a moot point as they're so distracted by trying to mate with me that they dont play their normal game so maybe my perspective isn't applicable to the average player.

This isn't a hand I was in, but happened at the 2/5 table I was playing at. I thought you might enjoy.

V1 3bets V2 preflop and V2 calls. V1 bets the flop, turn and river. On the river, V2 starts tanking and then shows his hand, AQo on an A high board. He shows the table his hand, continues deliberating and finally looks at V1 and says can you beat this? V1 doesn't respond. Finally, V2 says, "I doubt you can beat this so I am all-in" and shoves for another $480. At this point, if V1 is ahead, of course he calls, and if he is behind, the easiest much ever. V1 calls, flips over AK and takes the pot.

Worst river action I have ever witnesses.....