Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I didn't make that post to "whine", as you claim. Here is the statement I was replying to: "I disagree, because you have to play nitter when it costs a lot more to see a flop. When the entire table is opening to 8BB, you can no longer play hands like 55 or 87s because it gets too expensive to see a flop".

This previous post is making a dogmatic statement that you can't play hands like ( 5,5 ) or ( 8,7 - suited ) if "the entire table is opening to 8BB". Yes, it becomes more expensive to call, but you should still call if the return on your investment compensates. If the play is +EV, then it's +EV and should be made on that basis, not "oh no, someone made it 8BB so I should throw away these pocket fives".

The other point I was trying to make, and it's really the same as yours, is that your opponents are usually thinking in terms of absolute value. My vil made a high flush (third nuts he should not have played at all) and led $50 into a $300 pot. Now, when it comes to filling the tank of your SUV, or taking the kids to the local zoo or amusement park, $50 is quite a lot. That's how they think: it's $50; it's "a lot". They don't consider how miniscule that is in relation to the pot and stack sizes. Therefore: easy call.

Isn't that the point of your vil who called $12 with ( 9,T-off )? It's just $12 -- maybe a quarter tank of gas (depending on where you live -- it might be less) without regard to how much that really was in relation to what he had in front of him? Or obviously the possibility it just might get a lot more expensive to see a flop?

Redsox - I don't like shoving all in on hand 1. Your villains showed real weakness on turn and river. Make a more reasonable bet.

Hand 2 is how we print money - getting them to put in their stack with the worst of it.

Nice thin value river bet AsianNit. That isn't very donkalicious though.

I probably should have bet smaller in hindsight but not sure how he showed weakness on turn...he tried to bet 30 again (donk typically love betting the same amount on turn as flop from what I've seen) and got stopped. I then misinterpreted the river check as frustration more than as a weakish hand, with a spew call happening once in a while; bad read on my part.

Yeah, it sounded a bit like WC Fields talking about Philadelphia...

When villains bet same on flop and turn that's a single pair a lot of the time.

When he checks that river he's afraid you hit something on him. You can only get so much from the villain you are describing.

1/2 at Palm Beach Kennel Club, Florida

It's your typical dog-track poker room. It's actually a decent room (probably 35+ tables), but the rake is too high. I suppose the awful players make up for the high rake. I'm on vacation, visiting my grandfather. He's crushing the 2/4 limit obviously.


I'm the young guy at the table. I've only been at the table about 90 minutes, but I think most players realize that I'm pretty solid. I had AA cracked by T3ss after the donkey 4bet me PF. Board ran out AQ5JK... lol.

I'm sitting on about $120 (lost $80 in the AA hand; no intention of reloading-- just playing for fun)


Onto the hand:

4 players limp, I look down at A9ss and limp. Too short stacked to raise imo.

Flop ($9) is Qs7s8s

Checks to me, I bet $6. I'm not really sure if anyone has a piece here, and I think my bet looks super weak, as I've usually been betting pot in limped pots.

Old nit flats, fishy nit raises to $15, calling station donkey flats $15.

Now, I'm not sure how I'd play this spot in my normal $2/5 game, but I elected to just flat here. I think with so many players in the hand, someone will probably just ship it for me on the turn.

So I flat $15, gets to old nit, he shoves for $40 total. Fishy nit folds. Calling station donkey tanks, and calls. I shove. Calling station has like $40 left. He tanks again, and calls.

Old nit has K4ss, donkey shows KQo (lol).

I think my $15 flat is key, as I induced the donkey to get it in with a weak hand. If I had raised the $15, old man would have called (AI), and donkey probably would have realized he can't beat 2 hands after a bet/raise/reraise. But when it's just the old man shipping, donkey doesn't even consider the possibility that I could be holding the nuts.

Slow play is rarely the right play, but I think this was a good time for it, as I trapped a player who really had no business getting his money AI. He called the old man's $40, 'cuz it's only $25 moar!', and he called my $40 ship, 'cuz it's only another $40!'

how high is the rake?

$5+$2 is the standard in Florida

Two hands where I try to iso a shortstack shove PF and fail:

Hand 1: LP fish that limps his whole range limps UTG+1, one other limper, Hero raise in CO to $13 with AQo, shorty in SB ships for $38, UTG+1 flats, I ship for $220 total, UTG+1 calls once more with Q3s.

Hand 2: Different LP fish ($1500) that has a tight PF raising range limps in HJ, Hero ($580) raises on BTN to $11 with QQ, shorty in BB ships for $53, HJ flats, I 4bet to $211, HJ flats once more. HJ tank folds when I ship the remaining $370 on a KJ5 board, showing his pocket 3s.

'The fishy PF squeeze'

$1/2 NL

This hand is from over a year ago, but I think it's an interesting spot for a PF 'hero call.'

I'm sitting on over $500, main villain in the hand has about $250. Villain has been trying to outplay hero, to no avail. He's basically the dream donkey: he stations way too wide, and he likes to bluff.

I straddle UTG for $4 (game is deep and gambly).

5 players limp, Villain limps from the button, SB and BB both call,
I look down at ATss. I raise to $40.

5 limpers fold, villain on the button shoves for about $200 more.

I believe worse case scenario, I'm up against a low pair, which makes my call +EV with all the dead money. Villain has shown lots of aggression throughout the session, so I don't see him limping the button in this spot with a strong range.

I call.
Villain shows A7o.

it's amazing what people will call with. Q3s? for almost $300.

Here's a good one that happened about a year ago mid afternoon $2/3 game:

weak/tight old guy open limps in LP with about $130.

I raise button to $14 with QTo, sb calls, old guy calls.

Flop T-T-5.

Checks to me, I bet $17, old guy shoves, I call. Old guy has QQ.

the ultimate gambler

this one was beautiful. PLO 2/4, very gambly table, 3 in the morning.
the gamboolers who are stuck want to play 5/5, no one objects, let the games begin. first action is the guy two to my left tops on another 3K. most are pretty deep.

so on to the hand:
straddle 10, turkish donk limps. chinese gambler pots 50. few calls. i fold on button.

solid guy in the smallblind 3bets to 240 or so. limpdonk cold calls of course. chinese gambler goes allin for 300 or so, one of them callers also allin for less, SB eventually pots it to 1260, and now limdonk starts to think.

i though he finally has to fold, he surely cant have a limp 10/cold call 1260 range, but of course he called, which was pretty much allin, and SB and donk decide to check it down.
board: JJ8 3 5. SB shows AKJT ds for three jacks, donk tables A553 single suited to scoop

the old reg who hates internet kids:


little tournament. i probably played twice before, knew some of them, most were probably the tightest nits i have ever played with. so this guy is sitting directly to my left. all started mild mannered, he was friendly, i raised he folded, still friendly, but then i won a pot from him by raising with garbage and hitting the flop. and now he hated me

im deepstack in sb, everyone folds, i look down at 69o, he only has 6bb left and still played nitty pre, so i shoved. he snapped, i thought i´m dead, he tables 85s, misses and is critizising my play forever

same guy in a cashgame session. he wasn´t even tilting. i was sitting on his left, MP opened for 10, he called, i 3bet AQ to 45, MP folds, he called.
flop 823r. he open shoved 150, i of course folded, he proudly tabled 23ss and told me i was asking for it.

yeah, i just remembered that one:
1/2 holdem, villain is a big drunk guy in his 50is, telling me somewhat proudly that he was in jail 2 years for selling coke and now sells leatherpants lol, but actually a very nice guy, he bought me a beer, i bought him one etc

i had AK, raised to 10, he called, young girl went allin for 40, folds to me, i shove 200 which covers villain. he starts thinking, telling me he has 96s and if i promise him i only have AK and not AA, he is gonna call. i of course promise it, he calls, flop was AJ2, he rebought.

my first hand of live poker ever, with maybe 150k hands online

1/3 i buy in for 100

i wait for my bb and get 84 suited

limps around to me and i check, like 5-6 to the flop

884 flops

i check, utg bets 10 or something, utg+1 raises to 30 (or something), action comes to sb who raises all in, i call, covered by all except one, both raisers call.

turn blank river blank

I scoop a $384 pot against 8x AA and KK

too bad you didn't buy in for 100BB

With a third player in the hand all-in?

Overpairs on two-tone boards are the nuts!

Hand 1: 2/5 NL, $700 deep

5 limpers, hero checks 5 3

FLOP ($25 after rake): 7 6 4

Hero bets 25, 4 folds, limper on BTN raises to 75, hero raises to 250, BTN calls.

TURN ($525): t

Hero shoves for 450, BTN calls

RIVER A

BTN shows 88, Hero wins $1425



Hand 2: 2/5 NL, $800 deep

2 limpers, CO raises to $25, BTN calls, hero calls with 22 from SB, 1 limper calls and 1 folds.

FLOP ($100): 8 5 2

Hero bets 90, 2 folds, CO raises to 190, Hero shoves for 775, CO insta-calls with A A and hero holds

It's amazing how nits can get paid off lightly

I have no idea where I'm at in the hand, so shove and pray

1/2
Effective stacks $290,
V1 raises to $8 UTG, Hero calls UTG+2 with 88, V2 calls in SB, all others fold.
Flop: 8 7 2
check to hero who bets $20, V2 calls, V1 shoves and I snap, V2 folds.
V1 shows KK.

How the fish avoid earning money!

Saturday night at a dream table (Blinds 2/2). Loose passive with massive stacks (up to 5000bb) and bad players. Preflop raises of 30 will get at least 2 caller.

Villain sat down coming from a Tourney and bought in for 300-500. Two to Three hands later 3-4 Limpers to Villain in SB who instant shoved All-In. Everyone folded and Villain showed AA and said he didn't want to loose with his AA (he won 10 Bucks). That was the only situation were a hand was won without seeing a flop.

That totally hurts me because I didn't get any Premiums in five hours but on the other hand as long as you see those plays you know you are a winning player!

yeah, the girl with 40

1/2 at Borgata about 10 AM on a Saturday.

280 effective stacks, new table recently opened and myself and villain both sat down with max, I lost a small pot early. Older villain raises to 10 from MP, I'm on his immediate left and make it 25 (yes probably too small) with AA, fold to him he instantly announces 50. I think for a while and make it 125. He flats.

Flop KK9, he bets 10 into 250, I shove, he snap calls, I get ready to see AK or KK, he flips TT, I hold for almost full double early in session.


1/2 at Parx on a weekday afternoon. Table littered with "regs" who are mostly just bad pretty nitty players.

Hand comes against old guy who recently stacked me. In a previous hand I was down to 170 of my original 300, he made it 4 from EP, buncha called including me with 88, we get it in on AT8r flop, I show him my hand, he nods, turn and river blank and only then does he flip AA. He later announces to the table that he meant to make it 14 pre and grabbed the wrong chips.

I rebuy and am sitting around 330 when I pick up AA. Same old guy makes it 17 from EP, folds to me in SB I make it 50 he flats. Flop 235r I bet 75 into 100, he flats, turn A, I check he bets 100 I shove my last 105 he tanks calls with....TT. Blank on river I scoop.

Old guy continually says after hand "I didn't believe him I didn't believe him." I think this comes from a mix of me having an aggro image due to how I look (21 year old with backwards hat buying in for full) and the simple fact that I checked turn. There are 0 hands in my range that he beats on that crai on the turn but since I checked I don't think he could deal with me flipping a bluff there so he has to call. What am I possibly 3 betting pre, betting flop, and check/shoving turn with minimal FE that TT beats with an A on the board. But since he "didn't believe me" I got paid in full.

I'm just pointing out some people consider it inappropriate to do that sort of negotiating if a third player is in the hand, even if all-in.

It's extremely inappropriate. The games I play in stopped allowing talking during hands to stop this from happening.