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"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread "The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread

04-26-2020 , 08:01 AM
Question for the thread.

Recently over the last year or so my homegamescene have gradually shifted towards mixed games, and alot of PLO. Most of the fish/action players is getting tired of NL games (understandable for sure), and want more gamble/half and half games.

I am doing okay in PLO, as i have the basics pinned down i think and i have logged alot of hours in half/half games. But i still have leaks of course and is unsure of alot of spots- especially deep stacked. I need to get an even bigger edge to prepare me for the future. So i want to do some work on my PLO game, as i think the key to make money on the liverpokerscene over the next 3-5 years to come is to be good at several games and in particular Omaha for me.

So, what resources do you guys recommend in terms of working on your low stakes PLO full ring game? How would you proceed?
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04-26-2020 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
DC- wtf man. Just admit you're wrong jesus. galfond is currently and always has been a crusher.

johnny- I respect the constructive criticism but your goal (and I apologize if this is wrong) is seemingly to make me feel bad about my aspirations or at least the logic behind them.

Not trying to make you feel bad, or as FW said, rag on you. You’re only a picture of Tom Dwan to me. That’s it. Just as I’m sure I’m just a picture of Bruce Campbell to you (whether you know who BC is or not). What you do or do not do is inconsequential to my life, just as the same is true for me wrt you.

I just find it funny and ironic when you talk about how it’s lower EV for Galfond to do XYZ and you would never do that specifically because it’s lower EV for specifically earnings potential, yet from your intro into this thread you’ve basically come out of the gate with your a potential $ crusher in the career world but don’t want to do that because you’d rather do poker because you can make so much $, and that’s all you care about. And I like to point out funny and ironic things.


Serious question: why don’t you make a pgc thread? You seem to get tired of answering the same questions in here (which I don’t blame you), at least in there people could search your thread easier and it might cut down on some of the redundancy for questions asked to you. Look at 6bet me’s thread. There are enough people following that when a faq gets asked, most of the time 6bm doesn’t even have to respond because someone will quote the correct previous posts.

Last edited by johnny_on_the_spot; 04-26-2020 at 11:18 AM.
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04-26-2020 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
So, what resources do you guys recommend in terms of working on your low stakes PLO full ring game? How would you proceed?

https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-La...s=books&sr=1-1
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04-26-2020 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
Not trying to make you feel bad, or as FW said, rag on you. You’re only a picture of Tom Dwan to me. That’s it. Just as I’m sure I’m just a picture of Bruce Campbell to you (whether you know who BC is or not). What you do or do not do is inconsequential to my life, just as the same is true for me wrt you.

I just find it funny and ironic when you talk about how it’s lower EV for Galfond to do XYZ and you would never do that specifically because it’s lower EV for specifically earnings potential, yet from your intro into this thread you’ve basically come out of the gate with your a potential $ crusher in the career world but don’t want to do that because you’d rather do poker because you can make so much $, and that’s all you care about. And I like to point out funny and ironic things.


Serious question: why don’t you make a pgc thread? You seem to get tired of answering the same questions in here (which I don’t blame you), at least in there people could search your thread easier and it might cut down on some of the redundancy for questions asked to you. Look at 6bet me’s thread. There are enough people following that when a faq gets asked, most of the time 6bm doesn’t even have to respond because someone will quote the correct previous posts.
You misspelled Ash Williams, imo
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04-26-2020 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donat3llo
You misspelled Ash Williams, imo

Touché
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04-26-2020 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
Let's say we're 200 BB effective. And you have a wannabe pro tag which I can see. Let's say I'm a newbie.

I open QJcc 2.5x in the CO and you 3-bet (3-4x) a range of 10s+, AJ+, KQ+ from the SB without the inclusion of some more speculative hands and pairs (56s, 67s, 89s, 55-77) like most grinders who multi-table. Since balance is overrated.

I call since I have a good hand and getting a price IP at the given stack depth.

Flop 765hhd. What do you do? I have <15% equity vs your range. Yet, good luck winning this hand, on average, on the average run out. Especially when I likely shove river the vast majority of the time since I won't have SDV. I figure you'll want to wait for a better spot even with the top of your range (AA-KK?)

When you do fold, you'll have no idea I was bluffing since I won't show. You'll assume V couldn't possibly be bluffing, and if they are its just a random spaz and completely uncalculated. Rinse and repeat for V.

The SPR is 10-15 and you are OOP with a huge nut disadvantage despite crushing a standard r/c range from the CO in 6-max.

This was a big realization for me so just wanted to share. It's not button clicking. It's taking the time to build your range appropriately in every configuration and deviating accordingly, rather than exploiting prior to doing so.

Nice how experience has a way of making up for a lack of skill and discipline.
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04-26-2020 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
Just as I’m sure I’m just a picture of Bruce Campbell to you
Sure, I can see that now but all this time I just assumed you loved Game of Thrones.

At least we can all come together and admit that Phil Galfond is trash. Those are not my words, but rather the words of a much more reputable source:

Spoiler:
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04-26-2020 , 01:52 PM
She does have a point. Pokah playaz ah in fact trash of the worst variety.
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04-26-2020 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
I’m sure I’m just a picture of Bruce Campbell to you
i love bc and didn't even know that was him in your avatar - do other people have non super small and squinty views of avatars?

like dc i thought it was a got meme
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04-26-2020 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
Sure, I can see that now but all this time I just assumed you loved Game of Thrones.

I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
i love bc and didn't even know that was him in your avatar - do other people have non super small and squinty views of avatars?



like dc i thought it was a got meme


If you look at my individual page it comes out bigger. Picture might still be difficult but “Hail to the king, baby” is legible, and a dead give away of you know of Evil Dead

Also, biography/location are Army of Darkness references
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04-26-2020 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
I do.





If you look at my individual page it comes out bigger. Picture might still be difficult but “Hail to the king, baby” is legible, and a dead give away of you know of Evil Dead

Also, biography/location are Army of Darkness references
is looking up other people's bios a thing? i used to do it back in the day but soon quit once i saw there was never any useful info and you never want to be caught "viewing johnny's profile" on your own profile lol

hail to the king most definitely not legible unless i click the bio for me at least
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04-26-2020 , 02:27 PM
I usually only do it if I’m looking for posts/threads someone posted
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04-26-2020 , 02:30 PM
One thing about Poker Bros I like is that they let you throw dookie at people's heads.

The RNG feels very similar to Ignition and Bet Online and ACR and Pokerstars and Full Tilt and live poker.

So I would say it's rigged because my aces keep getting cracked by J6o.
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04-26-2020 , 02:59 PM
For the devils game - is the Jeff hwang book still relevant? I remember reading it years ago, but I’ve put in close to zero volume at plololol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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04-26-2020 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
Not trying to make you feel bad, or as FW said, rag on you. You’re only a picture of Tom Dwan to me. That’s it. Just as I’m sure I’m just a picture of Bruce Campbell to you (whether you know who BC is or not). What you do or do not do is inconsequential to my life, just as the same is true for me wrt you.

I just find it funny and ironic when you talk about how it’s lower EV for Galfond to do XYZ and you would never do that specifically because it’s lower EV for specifically earnings potential, yet from your intro into this thread you’ve basically come out of the gate with your a potential $ crusher in the career world but don’t want to do that because you’d rather do poker because you can make so much $, and that’s all you care about. And I like to point out funny and ironic things.


Serious question: why don’t you make a pgc thread? You seem to get tired of answering the same questions in here (which I don’t blame you), at least in there people could search your thread easier and it might cut down on some of the redundancy for questions asked to you. Look at 6bet me’s thread. There are enough people following that when a faq gets asked, most of the time 6bm doesn’t even have to respond because someone will quote the correct previous posts.

Hah. I always thought your avatar was a random triceratops/stegosaurus-type herbivore. Didn't realize it was Bruce.


Also just learned on imdb that there's an evil dead video game.
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04-26-2020 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
Sure, I can see that now but all this time I just assumed you loved Game of Thrones.

At least we can all come together and admit that Phil Galfond is trash. Those are not my words, but rather the words of a much more reputable source:

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
i love bc and didn't even know that was him in your avatar - do other people have non super small and squinty views of avatars?

like dc i thought it was a got meme
I too thought it was just some random engraving, didn't notice Bruce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
One thing about Poker Bros I like is that they let you throw dookie at people's heads.

The RNG feels very similar to Ignition and Bet Online and ACR and Pokerstars and Full Tilt and live poker.

So I would say it's rigged because my aces keep getting cracked by J6o.
same for the casino autoshuffler.
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04-26-2020 , 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
I usually only do it if I’m looking for posts/threads someone posted

ygos?
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04-26-2020 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
(Hope this makes sense....lot of tequila)

So this is a great post and it’s hard to argue with strategically. You’re right if we’’re playing vs a good player who is trying to outplay us

But tactically the vast majority of the people we’re playing at 100 and 200 nl online and up to 2/5 and often 5/10 live are playing their cards and not their ranges and rarely their opponents ranges .

So in this specific example, because we’re playing against people who rarely try to outplay us, call too much and bluff too little on early streets and then fold too much with marginal hands on turns and rivers when betting gets big. So we c bet this flop with that range and then fold to a raise, probably actually barrell the turn and rep an overpair and potentially actually bet/fold, give up or sometimes bluff shove river.

I think it’s more profitable to table change than to amend our 3 bet range when we’re playing wizards. I get that if you aspire to battle the best and be the bestest, this may seem cowardly but it works for me
ty man. All of that makes sense and by no means am I advocating being a station or getting into random leveling wars with unknown grinders you’ve barely played with.

But I do think it’s important to focus on building a good foundation via putting in the work rather than looking for shortcuts (b/f religiously), even at the micros. Of course, I’m not speaking from experience. But many of the legends seemed to approach it this way, from my understanding. How is one supposed to make proper exploits if they don’t know the correct line at equilibrium? It seems to me as if many rationalize the shortcuts they are taking.

But definitely agree. Would be interested to hear what others think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
Not trying to make you feel bad, or as FW said, rag on you. You’re only a picture of Tom Dwan to me. That’s it. Just as I’m sure I’m just a picture of Bruce Campbell to you (whether you know who BC is or not). What you do or do not do is inconsequential to my life, just as the same is true for me wrt you.

I just find it funny and ironic when you talk about how it’s lower EV for Galfond to do XYZ and you would never do that specifically because it’s lower EV for specifically earnings potential, yet from your intro into this thread you’ve basically come out of the gate with your a potential $ crusher in the career world but don’t want to do that because you’d rather do poker because you can make so much $, and that’s all you care about. And I like to point out funny and ironic things.


Serious question: why don’t you make a pgc thread? You seem to get tired of answering the same questions in here (which I don’t blame you), at least in there people could search your thread easier and it might cut down on some of the redundancy for questions asked to you. Look at 6bet me’s thread. There are enough people following that when a faq gets asked, most of the time 6bm doesn’t even have to respond because someone will quote the correct previous posts.
You misunderstood. I don’t want to get married, have kids etc not because I want to maximize my earnings potential but because I want to not only be the very best but stay there. Anything that detracts from that doesn’t make sense to me.

Never have I said this to be controversial, I’m just expressing how I genuinely feel.

I’m sure I’ve probably implied otherwise so I get it, but money isn’t everything to me. I just anticipate having a lot of it if/when I accomplish the goals I’ve set out for myself.

In regards to the PG&C, it’s something I’ll consider when I’m 21 and am dedicating myself to the grind full time. Right now, I’m studying significantly more than I’m playing which i think is the right way to go about it. I’ve shown an ability to apply my knowledge well in real time.

Also, I struggle with other people’s judgment of me. Especially since in my eyes they don’t understand me. I’ve never tried to make this thread my personal PG&C , just talk about myself a little more than I should. But I’ll do better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator
Nice how experience has a way of making up for a lack of skill and discipline.
explain please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
One thing about Poker Bros I like is that they let you throw dookie at people's heads.

The RNG feels very similar to Ignition and Bet Online and ACR and Pokerstars and Full Tilt and live poker.

So I would say it's rigged because my aces keep getting cracked by J6o.
Am I the only one who can’t tell if you’re joking? because this is what all the bad regs I’ve played with live sound like haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamicheats
For the devils game - is the Jeff hwang book still relevant? I remember reading it years ago, but I’ve put in close to zero volume at plololol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Would recommend a RIO membership. Some of the coaches are meh but Galfond himself has several solid PLO videos, specifically dedicated for essential members.
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04-26-2020 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
ty man. All of that makes sense and by no means am I advocating being a station or getting into random leveling wars with unknown grinders you’ve barely played with.

But I do think it’s important to focus on building a good foundation via putting in the work rather than looking for shortcuts (b/f religiously), even at the micros. Of course, I’m not speaking from experience. But many of the legends seemed to approach it this way, from my understanding. How is one supposed to make proper exploits if they don’t know the correct line at equilibrium? It seems to me as if many rationalize the shortcuts they are taking.

But definitely agree. Would be interested to hear what others think.


You misunderstood. I don’t want to get married, have kids etc not because I want to maximize my earnings potential but because I want to not only be the very best but stay there. Anything that detracts from that doesn’t make sense to me.

Never have I said this to be controversial, I’m just expressing how I genuinely feel.

I’m sure I’ve probably implied otherwise so I get it, but money isn’t everything to me. I just anticipate having a lot of it if/when I accomplish the goals I’ve set out for myself.

In regards to the PG&C, it’s something I’ll consider when I’m 21 and am dedicating myself to the grind full time. Right now, I’m studying significantly more than I’m playing which i think is the right way to go about it. I’ve shown an ability to apply my knowledge well in real time.

Also, I struggle with other people’s judgment of me. Especially since in my eyes they don’t understand me. I’ve never tried to make this thread my personal PG&C , just talk about myself a little more than I should. But I’ll do better.



explain please



Am I the only one who can’t tell if you’re joking? because this is what all the bad regs I’ve played with live sound like haha.



Would recommend a RIO membership. Some of the coaches are meh but Galfond himself has several solid PLO videos, specifically dedicated for essential members.

Ty - I should’ve quoted the post I was intending to respond to.

It was a semi- suggestion for Giltrucci who was asking about plo materials. Just wasn’t sure if the suggestion was at all relevant anymore.
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04-26-2020 , 03:56 PM
4 cards, more gambooliness should = higher edge if you’re a patient, over rolled robot with a strong mental game?

May need to look into it. My only concern is that it would it would take longer to master.
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04-26-2020 , 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
One thing about Poker Bros I like is that they let you throw dookie at people's heads.



The RNG feels very similar to Ignition and Bet Online and ACR and Pokerstars and Full Tilt and live poker.



So I would say it's rigged because my aces keep getting cracked by J6o.
They should just use a banana, imo
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04-26-2020 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
4 cards, more gambooliness should = higher edge if you’re a patient, over rolled robot with a strong mental game?

May need to look into it. My only concern is that it would it would take longer to master.
How hard could learning to get it in as a 60% favorite possibly be?
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04-26-2020 , 04:55 PM
I don’t understand. Getting it in as a 60% favorite is fine... but irrelevant? If you’re going to focus on equity I’m saying it would be harder to come to a conclusion what your equity will be against V’s range on turn/rivers because of the exponential increase in potential configurations?

Like if EP opens you 3! pot HJ and SB cold calls. Then the board is like Q-10-7-5hhdc. And SB x/jams. Are you just gonna rely on pot odds and feel?

Who gets it in just cause they feel like it? Obviously important to strive to understand where you’re at, at all times, if possible. Live player ranges do make that difficult at times. I’m saying that process of playing GTO eventually seems like it would be exponentially more difficult in PLO?
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04-26-2020 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face
She does have a point. Pokah playaz ah in fact trash of the worst variety.

And that did look a lot like Annie Duke who is a frightful ****
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04-26-2020 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
I don’t understand. Getting it in as a 60% favorite is fine... but irrelevant? If you’re going to focus on equity I’m saying it would be harder to come to a conclusion what your equity will be against V’s range on turn/rivers because of the exponential increase in potential configurations?

Like if EP opens you 3! pot HJ and SB cold calls. Then the board is like Q-10-7-5hhdc. And SB x/jams. Are you just gonna rely on pot odds and feel?

Who gets it in just cause they feel like it? Obviously important to strive to understand where you’re at, at all times, if possible. Live player ranges do make that difficult at times. I’m saying that process of playing GTO eventually seems like it would be exponentially more difficult in PLO?

He’s joking.
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