Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
Two examples where it may be correct to apply the above: if up against a wide opener who folds too often to 3bets but makes a lot of mistakes post flop, it is often correct to flat him with your entire range to get him to make big mistakes especially if it'll often go heads up......
I agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
I disagree about the second example, and it's debatable, but I think the bolded is absolutely flat wrong.
If someone is folding too much to 3bets, you absolutely should have a 3betting range and it should contain a lot of bluffs.
I agree.
How the hell can I agree with both of you???
Because both of you are right however Vernon, I think you are forgetting one fundamental truth of LLSNL poker...
A lot of our villains will never adjust to us.
Ideally, against a player that opens wide and folds to a 3-bet we absolutely want to widen our 3-betting range against said opponent however its not like this villain will think to himself, "hey, that guy keeps 3-betting me therefore I'm going to start 3-bet calling with more of my opening range".
that rarely happens live. What happens is the guy just keeps folding all the hands we crush and then when he finally calls our 3-bet, its with QQ+, AK but then Hero is leveling himself thinking, "aha, he finally is adjusting to me by widening his 3-bet calling range...".
No. No he's not. He's not adjusting anything...
On the flip side, these loose aggro openers will often carry their aggression post flop if they retain the initiative.
And there is a subset of these villains that just have god awful post flop games. It is these sepcific villains who we want to flat their opening raises with almost 100% of our value range and this goes doubly so when we are deep.
come flop, our hand is underrepped yet superior to theirs and they will never see it coming when we lower the boom on them.
The downside to the above is that we keep their range pretty wide so post flop we can get into trouble if villain isn't terrible post flop. However, if villain is terrible post flop then the above is like printing money.
Conversely, there is nothing that makes me sadder than to be up against one of these spewtards that raises $20 preflop, I 3-bet to $55 with AA and they fold
Against these players, I will 3-bet them with 54s - QJs, 64s - KTs, 22 - TT because I will often get villain to fold a hand in which he has decent equity against me with. However, when I have him crushed (i.e. I have KQ+, JJ+), I want him in the pot and retaining the initiative with a hand I likely dominate. To be clear, this is a special subset of aggro opening villains. Most LLSNL players have a pretty wide 3-bet calling range if they raise. But there is a special subset of aggro spewtard that raises wide but folds most of his raising range to 3-bets.
Last edited by dgiharris; 08-06-2013 at 05:01 PM.