Questions About Live 1/2 Hand
03-28-2011
, 07:47 PM
In this HH I am going to conceal what I held, at least for now, because I think it will generate some good discussion if it's not known. (If lots of people disagree I will tell you.)
Live 1/2. It's a Saturday night so obviously the table is great. Max buy-in at this room is $300. Hero is sitting on a stack of just over $700. Only one player at the table has me covered; he's sitting 2 to my left.
Main villain in this hand is sitting 3 to my left. He was not at the table when I built up my stack. My read on villain so far is: he is one of these guys who is not a total fish, but not really very good either. He bought in for $300, quickly started jumping into the table talk, and has already announced to the table, "I play for big pots". Meanwhile he has yet to be in one.
Villain and I have been involved in 2 small pots. In a limped pot, I raised a fish's $2 flop bet and villain minraised me from the button. I folded and he took it down right there. In another limped pot, I was next-to-last to act and bet the flop, villain called from the button (no one else did), and then I check-folded the turn. Obviously I don't know what villain had in those hands, but if he's paying attention at all he knows that flop bets don't necessarily mean strength from me and he might think he can profitably call-bluff me. For what it's worth, I do think this villain is paying attention and trying to read hands.
Now on to the hand. Main villain has about $335 behind, most other players at this table also have around $300-400.
Hero is UTG with XX
Hero raises to $10, folds around to Villain, Villain calls $10, 3 other people call including the blinds.
Flop ($44): J
9 4
2 checks to Hero, Hero bets $40, Villain calls $40, 3 folds.
Turn ($124): 4
Hero checks, Villain bets $40, Hero thinks for a few seconds and then calls $40.
River ($204): 8
Hero checks, Villain bets $100 (leaving $135 behind), Hero is all-in...
So I had some questions for the other players on here because I am not sure if I played this hand correctly. I will try to frame all questions from Hero's perspective.
1. With what hands do you prefer to check the turn? With what hands would you keep betting?
2. If we bet the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to call with? Raise with? If we check the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to bet with?
3. What hands do we expect villain to bet 1/3 of the pot with on the turn? Or should we not read anything into the bet-sizing?
4. Once villain sees us call $40 on the turn, with what hands would you expect villain to bet the river with if checked to?
5. Do you think this villain would ever call our river shove with less than a flush? Do you think this villain would fold a flush to our river shove?
6. What does Villain's hand look like it could be on each street, based on the way he played it?
7. What hands would you play this way if you were Hero? ("None" is OK to say.)
Live 1/2. It's a Saturday night so obviously the table is great. Max buy-in at this room is $300. Hero is sitting on a stack of just over $700. Only one player at the table has me covered; he's sitting 2 to my left.
Main villain in this hand is sitting 3 to my left. He was not at the table when I built up my stack. My read on villain so far is: he is one of these guys who is not a total fish, but not really very good either. He bought in for $300, quickly started jumping into the table talk, and has already announced to the table, "I play for big pots". Meanwhile he has yet to be in one.
Villain and I have been involved in 2 small pots. In a limped pot, I raised a fish's $2 flop bet and villain minraised me from the button. I folded and he took it down right there. In another limped pot, I was next-to-last to act and bet the flop, villain called from the button (no one else did), and then I check-folded the turn. Obviously I don't know what villain had in those hands, but if he's paying attention at all he knows that flop bets don't necessarily mean strength from me and he might think he can profitably call-bluff me. For what it's worth, I do think this villain is paying attention and trying to read hands.
Now on to the hand. Main villain has about $335 behind, most other players at this table also have around $300-400.
Hero is UTG with XX
Hero raises to $10, folds around to Villain, Villain calls $10, 3 other people call including the blinds.
Flop ($44): J
9 42 checks to Hero, Hero bets $40, Villain calls $40, 3 folds.
Turn ($124): 4
Hero checks, Villain bets $40, Hero thinks for a few seconds and then calls $40.
River ($204): 8
Hero checks, Villain bets $100 (leaving $135 behind), Hero is all-in...
So I had some questions for the other players on here because I am not sure if I played this hand correctly. I will try to frame all questions from Hero's perspective.
1. With what hands do you prefer to check the turn? With what hands would you keep betting?
2. If we bet the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to call with? Raise with? If we check the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to bet with?
3. What hands do we expect villain to bet 1/3 of the pot with on the turn? Or should we not read anything into the bet-sizing?
4. Once villain sees us call $40 on the turn, with what hands would you expect villain to bet the river with if checked to?
5. Do you think this villain would ever call our river shove with less than a flush? Do you think this villain would fold a flush to our river shove?
6. What does Villain's hand look like it could be on each street, based on the way he played it?
7. What hands would you play this way if you were Hero? ("None" is OK to say.)
Last edited by CallMeVernon; 03-28-2011 at 08:12 PM.
Reason: Left out an important question
03-28-2011
, 08:09 PM
03-28-2011
, 09:30 PM
Alot of these answers depend on player tendencies, and we have limited info of course. My answers in bold. These answers are not what I think is the "right play" by villain, but are what I think the "common play" is at 1/2.
Quote:
Hero is UTG with XX
Hero raises to $10, folds around to Villain, Villain calls $10, 3 other people call including the blinds.
Flop ($44): J 9 4
2 checks to Hero, Hero bets $40, Villain calls $40, 3 folds.
Turn ($124): 4
Hero checks, Villain bets $40, Hero thinks for a few seconds and then calls $40.
River ($204): 8
Hero checks, Villain bets $100 (leaving $135 behind), Hero is all-in...
So I had some questions for the other players on here because I am not sure if I played this hand correctly. I will try to frame all questions from Hero's perspective.
1. With what hands do you prefer to check the turn? With what hands would you keep betting?
I would check any bare flush draw or straight draw, any 1 pair hand TT or less, KJ and any lower XJ, any hand that completely missed (AKo). I would bet any FH, flush, trips, overpair, quads(smallish).
2. If we bet the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to call with? Raise with? If we check the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to bet with?
Depends on our bet size. If bet was 1/2 pot (~60) at 1/2 would expect a call from TP, Top 2, any flush draw Q or higher, maybe TT. If villain is tricky could call w/any big made hand(FH/quads/).
Raise with flush, FH, quads.
Villain bets when checked to w/small flush(Q high or less), trips, overpair, AJ, maybe straight flush draw.
3. What hands do we expect villain to bet 1/3 of the pot with on the turn? Or should we not read anything into the bet-sizing?
Big made hands: FH, quads, A or K high flush. I think bet size is important here.
4. Once villain sees us call $40 on the turn, with what hands would you expect villain to bet the river with if checked to?
His bet size is weird (on river)here IMO. As played, FH, Quads, any flush, any straight. I don't see a bluff here with this bet size. Some villains would bet this amt w/TP here.
5. Do you think this villain would ever call our river shove with less than a flush? Do you think this villain would fold a flush to our river shove?
Depends on your image, we don't have enough data on what villain thinks about you. A bad player would fold less than a flush, good player might call, your betting pattern looks suspicious here.
In general, I don't see this villain folding a flush here, even a small flush.
6. What does Villain's hand look like it could be on each street, based on the way he played it?
Flop: Any set, flush draw, straight draw, 2 pair, any 2 overcards, any pair(possibly).
Turn: TPTK, nut flush or K high flush, FH, quads, trips.
River: Any flush, FH, quads, TPTK, trips
7. What hands would you play this way if you were Hero? ("None" is OK to say.)
I guess none, basing this mostly on your river play. If I thought I was ahead on river I wouldn't check raise here, I'd bet out. I would only check raise allin on a bluff and then only if I had a strong read that it would work. (rare)
Hero raises to $10, folds around to Villain, Villain calls $10, 3 other people call including the blinds.
Flop ($44): J
9 42 checks to Hero, Hero bets $40, Villain calls $40, 3 folds.
Turn ($124): 4
Hero checks, Villain bets $40, Hero thinks for a few seconds and then calls $40.
River ($204): 8
Hero checks, Villain bets $100 (leaving $135 behind), Hero is all-in...
So I had some questions for the other players on here because I am not sure if I played this hand correctly. I will try to frame all questions from Hero's perspective.
1. With what hands do you prefer to check the turn? With what hands would you keep betting?
I would check any bare flush draw or straight draw, any 1 pair hand TT or less, KJ and any lower XJ, any hand that completely missed (AKo). I would bet any FH, flush, trips, overpair, quads(smallish).
2. If we bet the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to call with? Raise with? If we check the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to bet with?
Depends on our bet size. If bet was 1/2 pot (~60) at 1/2 would expect a call from TP, Top 2, any flush draw Q or higher, maybe TT. If villain is tricky could call w/any big made hand(FH/quads/).
Raise with flush, FH, quads.
Villain bets when checked to w/small flush(Q high or less), trips, overpair, AJ, maybe straight flush draw.
3. What hands do we expect villain to bet 1/3 of the pot with on the turn? Or should we not read anything into the bet-sizing?
Big made hands: FH, quads, A or K high flush. I think bet size is important here.
4. Once villain sees us call $40 on the turn, with what hands would you expect villain to bet the river with if checked to?
His bet size is weird (on river)here IMO. As played, FH, Quads, any flush, any straight. I don't see a bluff here with this bet size. Some villains would bet this amt w/TP here.
5. Do you think this villain would ever call our river shove with less than a flush? Do you think this villain would fold a flush to our river shove?
Depends on your image, we don't have enough data on what villain thinks about you. A bad player would fold less than a flush, good player might call, your betting pattern looks suspicious here.
In general, I don't see this villain folding a flush here, even a small flush.
6. What does Villain's hand look like it could be on each street, based on the way he played it?
Flop: Any set, flush draw, straight draw, 2 pair, any 2 overcards, any pair(possibly).
Turn: TPTK, nut flush or K high flush, FH, quads, trips.
River: Any flush, FH, quads, TPTK, trips
7. What hands would you play this way if you were Hero? ("None" is OK to say.)
I guess none, basing this mostly on your river play. If I thought I was ahead on river I wouldn't check raise here, I'd bet out. I would only check raise allin on a bluff and then only if I had a strong read that it would work. (rare)
03-28-2011
, 10:56 PM
Quote:
So I had some questions for the other players on here because I am not sure if I played this hand correctly. I will try to frame all questions from Hero's perspective.
1. With what hands do you prefer to check the turn? With what hands would you keep betting?
I check turn with my AJ, KJ type hands without king or ace of hearts, also with my overpairs and tens some of the time, the four doesn't change much so if we have any sort of made hand or draw (monster draw QT hearts we bet ldo) I continue to a 1/3 pot bet.
2. If we bet the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to call with? Raise with? If we check the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to bet with?
call with higher flushes and Aor K with a pair type hands, overpair or AJ,KJ, A9 type hands or QT with a ... Alot really, I mean the heart is a scare card and if you c-bet a large range on the flop you prob continue with a large portion of your range here...the exceptions being your one-pair type hands and Boats. Villain raises some boats and strong flushes here, also if villain is bluffy its not a bad card to bluff as you are prob folding to a raise without at least a flush...if you think villain can float you he bets his entire range here when checked to, prob bets most of his range anyway other than the type of hands we would check turn with.
3. What hands do we expect villain to bet 1/3 of the pot with on the turn? Or should we not read anything into the bet-sizing?
usually in my experience at lower stakes this is generally a weak made hand, draw or the nuts (9x, Jx, one heart or 44,JJ) doesn't sound helpful but you generally can take out his made flushes, boats and air...though at 1/2 ppl bet weird so you could just ignore it...
4. Once villain sees us call $40 on the turn, with what hands would you expect villain to bet the river with if checked to?
Good flushes and boats maybe turn a st8 into a bluff...though honestly this is 1/2 so villain could be like I haz AJ I must bet...
5. Do you think this villain would ever call our river shove with less than a flush? Do you think this villain would fold a flush to our river shove?
Meh, this is so villain dependent you could get looked up as light as 4x or villain only calling with a flush or better...1/2 villain without reads 85% will not fold baby flush.
6. What does Villain's hand look like it could be on each street, based on the way he played it?
Flop:Flush Draw, str8 draw, one pair, maybe a couple combos of sets most raise I feel
Turn: one pair type hands, flush draws, any combos of sets that boated up
River: Flushes, Boats..about it...
7. What hands would you play this way if you were Hero? ("None" is OK to say.)
1. With what hands do you prefer to check the turn? With what hands would you keep betting?
I check turn with my AJ, KJ type hands without king or ace of hearts, also with my overpairs and tens some of the time, the four doesn't change much so if we have any sort of made hand or draw (monster draw QT hearts we bet ldo) I continue to a 1/3 pot bet.
2. If we bet the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to call with? Raise with? If we check the turn, what kinds of hands do we expect villain to bet with?
call with higher flushes and A
or K with a pair type hands, overpair or AJ,KJ, A9 type hands or QT with a ... Alot really, I mean the heart is a scare card and if you c-bet a large range on the flop you prob continue with a large portion of your range here...the exceptions being your one-pair type hands and Boats. Villain raises some boats and strong flushes here, also if villain is bluffy its not a bad card to bluff as you are prob folding to a raise without at least a flush...if you think villain can float you he bets his entire range here when checked to, prob bets most of his range anyway other than the type of hands we would check turn with.3. What hands do we expect villain to bet 1/3 of the pot with on the turn? Or should we not read anything into the bet-sizing?
usually in my experience at lower stakes this is generally a weak made hand, draw or the nuts (9x, Jx, one heart or 44,JJ) doesn't sound helpful but you generally can take out his made flushes, boats and air...though at 1/2 ppl bet weird so you could just ignore it...
4. Once villain sees us call $40 on the turn, with what hands would you expect villain to bet the river with if checked to?
Good flushes and boats maybe turn a st8 into a bluff...though honestly this is 1/2 so villain could be like I haz AJ I must bet...
5. Do you think this villain would ever call our river shove with less than a flush? Do you think this villain would fold a flush to our river shove?
Meh, this is so villain dependent you could get looked up as light as 4x or villain only calling with a flush or better...1/2 villain without reads 85% will not fold baby flush.
6. What does Villain's hand look like it could be on each street, based on the way he played it?
Flop:Flush Draw, str8 draw, one pair, maybe a couple combos of sets most raise I feel
Turn: one pair type hands, flush draws, any combos of sets that boated up
River: Flushes, Boats..about it...
7. What hands would you play this way if you were Hero? ("None" is OK to say.)
...
Last edited by kimoser22; 03-28-2011 at 11:01 PM.
Reason: clarity
03-29-2011
, 11:42 AM
I don't think you can count on V's tendency to float-steal in this particular hand as it is a raised, HU situation vs. the limped MW hands you describe in prior history with V, so I think flushes with sc's or one-gappers make up a large portion of his range after he bets 1/3 pot OTT.
After you call behind, I think V is value-betting OTR...and if he says he's playing for big pots, then I'd go ahead and assume V will *never* put you on a boat in this spot - maybe a bigger flush - most villains I have crushed in this spot call my exact hand and still pay me off - you're absolutely correct to c/c turn, c/shove river with JJ/99/44.
I think we can safely assume 2p2'ers don't raise any hearts less than AKhh UTG(maybe AQhh but that's a leak imo), so I can't imagine you show up with less than a boat here. If you spazzed with QQ+ and one, or even the nut flush on a paired board, oops 
, and I think I open to $15 in 1/2 to thin the field a bit - you'll still get at least a caller from LP, and won't be playing a bloated pot OOP with an overpair (or suited broadway) against a bunch of stations.
After you call behind, I think V is value-betting OTR...and if he says he's playing for big pots, then I'd go ahead and assume V will *never* put you on a boat in this spot - maybe a bigger flush - most villains I have crushed in this spot call my exact hand and still pay me off - you're absolutely correct to c/c turn, c/shove river with JJ/99/44.
I think we can safely assume 2p2'ers don't raise any hearts less than AKhh UTG(maybe AQhh but that's a leak imo), so I can't imagine you show up with less than a boat here. If you spazzed with QQ+ and one
, or even the nut flush on a paired board, oops , and I think I open to $15 in 1/2 to thin the field a bit - you'll still get at least a caller from LP, and won't be playing a bloated pot OOP with an overpair (or suited broadway) against a bunch of stations.
Last edited by scelsi; 03-29-2011 at 11:46 AM.
Reason: rethought UTG opening range