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QQ pre flop 130BB deep QQ pre flop 130BB deep

03-06-2013 , 07:11 PM
Background
1 / 2 live cash game, 9 handed.
Villain 1 is a LAG player, he has managed to bully a few players including hero out of pots. Opening v wide. 3 betting much more frequently than other players. Stack = 600.
Villain 2 is a TAG player. Won a few decent pots, not seem him lose a pot. Stack = 400.
Hero, TAG player. No prior history with either Villain. Stack = 250.

Pre Flop
V1 opens for 9 in MP. V2 3 bets to 22 one seat round from him. All other players fold. Hero in BB has QQ, what is best line here? I am thinking that V2 may be trying to isolate V1 since he knows he opens quite wide meaning his 3 betting range might be quite weak.
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 07:25 PM
I think this is an ideal spot to 4 bet given that you think it may be an isolation play.

You are also going to be out of position the entire hand, so you don't really want to flat/eval, because any Ace or King blows you off the hand if he leads. (I would flat against someone I knew to only 3 bet KK or AA though to set mine)

I think if you raise to 65-70, that will likely end the hand. If he shoves on you, I would probably fold unless you had a read. If he flats, I would shove any non K/A flop, exception being if you spike trips.

If you aren't willing to 4 bet to at least 65, then just flat though. I think given the situation, I'd be perfectly fine scooping the pot as is.
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 07:49 PM
Im 4 betting to $70 and I'm not folding.
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 07:54 PM
Thanks both for responses. I did 4 bet to 62, so seems like we agree on this.

Next question...
1. What if V1 jams and V2 folds?
2. What if V1 folds and V2 jams?
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 08:03 PM
If V1 jams: Normally an opener jamming over a 3 and then 4 bet is hella strong. I would pause for concern. Given your villain 1 description though and of course our stack size I'm calling.

If V2 jams: I'm snap calling. That was why I chose $70 as it sets up our equity almost even against a pretty tight range.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.371% 50.99% 01.38% 214798848 5801790.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 47.629% 46.25% 01.38% 194824356 5801790.00 { TT+, AKs, AKo }

I mean it is close, take the TT out of the range and it gets meh, but I keep TT in there to account for the random spew you will see sometimes. This is a fairly tight range to be giving villains credit for.
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 08:25 PM
Thanks for your analysis but in my experience in live play no one puts more than 100BB in with less than QQ.
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 08:27 PM
Please don't 4bet fold. Either flat to trap or 4bet and get it in
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 09:08 PM
I'd rather flat and give V1 the rope to hang himself (if he chooses to raise over top).
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-06-2013 , 09:46 PM
You have a quarter of your stack in already... I think that given the stack size, we go with it.
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-07-2013 , 12:44 AM
My inclination is to reraise to $70 and to be prepared to get it all-in.

However, I would be curious to know how the TAG player views us? Would he assume that our 4-bet raise has to be a strong hand, or might he think we could be squeezing both of them with a less-than-premium hand?
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote
03-07-2013 , 03:58 AM
If V2 is raising light to isolate, he'll fold most of his junk to your 4bet, assuming it's sizable.
If you flat the 3bet, and V1 comes along for the ride you'll have an SPR of 3.4 and can easily commit when you flop an overpair. If you flat you'll also be able to collect a cbet from V2 those times you are good, which is unlikely if you 4bet. I'd flat, with the intention of c/r V2's likely cbet whenver we flop an overpair. If we flop a set, I could get behind a more passive line post flop if V2 is likely to have hit the flop and bet the turn. Either way I'm looking to get all in.
QQ pre flop 130BB deep Quote

      
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