2/5NL, been at table for only about 2 orbits. Hero is in MP with $400 and covers villains. V1 is UTG+1 w/$250, seems like an average reg. V2 is a Gambool-ly Asian in LP w/$200 (I saw him limp/call $40 pre-flop with a $100 stack and holding 9d7d, and he flopped a straight, LOL). 2 limpers to me including V1, I make it $30 w/QhQs, V2 calls, V1 calls, everyone else folds, $95 in pot after rake. Flop is Td7d4c, V1 shoves for remaining $230, V2 is still to act behind me. Hero should .... ???

Shove. Expect to see fds and Tx, along with sets a smaller percentage of time.

I would call and hope v2 pushes based on player descriptions.

V1 shoving seems weak....a10? Flush draw?

I'd fold. It's really hard to flop s flush draw. He could have that, but it's not the bulk of his range. Tx? Possible, as it hit his range better, but does he just open overbet shove into 2 players? It's possible - I've seen it plenty. However, until I've sen this particular Villain overplaying one pair like that, I'm leaning towards giving him credit for smashing the flop. Meaning, we're probably up against 2 pair+ most of the time.

spr is way too low to fold. you are so far ahead of a 50bb shortstack's limping range its not even funny. I literally snap call and happily hand over $250 when shortstack binks whatever he needs to win.

much less stressful to have V realize their 30% equity for 50bb rather than be put into these situations vs a maniac with 200bb.

Grunch.

Call and ride the variance train without any better reads.

Snap call.

What do we think V's range is here? Limp / call and then open shove into 2 players?

Wow, this is super bad. What two pair hands could v have? Meanwhile there are tons of Tx and FD's V could have. Absent reads we should fold an overpair in 50bb effective pots 0% of the time.

Sets are the bulk, V limp calls trash, so 2 pair is in there more than normally. The thing to me is the open shove into 2 players. I think most of the time that's a 2 pair+ hand.

Interesting hand.

My initial gut reaction was CALL and hope he's drawing to the diamonds. But that's gambling to me.

After thinking about it another 10 seconds I changed my mind to FOLD. Why would he over bet shove with anything but made hand here? He wouldn't. He has AA, KK, TT, 77 or 44 for sure and doesn't want YOU flushing on him so he's shoving.

Then look at how much you are getting pot odds. It's less than 1.5:1 on your money here so you need to be beating this guy over 42% of the time to be +EV. If he has any of the hands above, then you are a big dog in the hand. You'd basically be drawing to two outs in the deck a large majority of the time.

The more i think about it, I'd say it's an easy fold, unless you had a read on the player which told you otherwise.

I just don't think the player is shoving here unless he has it. At low stakes when donks move all in, they typically have it. I'd say about 95% of the time, they have it.

lol @ folding

Im relatively new for live games, but I'd snap call, right wrong, or otherwise

This.

It's ok to use your hand reading skills. If villain is some wrinkly old nit who has been waiting 12 hours for aces, fine. But your average ahort-stacker is typically finding himself getting pot committed with less than stellar hands. I call all day.

I respectfully disagree with this assessment. With that stack size, most players I play with would check 2 pair+ to the PFR, expecting some sort of C-bet, with the plan of pushing over top of the c-bet.

More often than not, given the stack sizes, this action is indicative of a hand that has hit some of the flop (but not completely fit) and is hoping that a big bet on a T high flop will cause the remaining players to fold. While it's possible that 2pair or sets are in V's range, the complete range is likely to be more heavily weighted towards top pair and draws, maybe 88-99.

CALL!
50bbs here. Variance train, all aboard!

I expect to see AT or Jd9d or maybe 4d5d from V1 here. Not many 2 pair hands we see here besides T7 sooted. If V1 played a set this way, make a mental note.

^^ Thinking about stack to pot ratio more, I have to admit it is closer than I thought at first glance. And, I'd agree most players LOVE to check raise big made hands.

Still, my thinking is this is a pretty stiff bet into two players. For the most part, that leads me to believe "big hand".

Thanks for being cool with your response. I think that gets much better thought / information than the standard.

Folding here should be constitute a criminal act.

Shove for all reasons listed already

Thanks for all the replies, glad to see it was not a straightforward decision, LOL.

Results: I put V1 on either set, 2P, or combo draw, and I shove. V2 snap-calls. V1 shows T8o for TPWK (WTF?), v2 shows 44 for bottom set. Turn is a T, V1 lets out a misinformed victory cheer and V2 takes the pot with his boat.

At the table, in my head, I figured that I had 50% equity given the range I assigned V1 - in rough numbers, I am an 80+% of dog against a set / 2P, a 72% favorite against a FD, and a 55% favorite against a combo draw. Again, rough numbers in my head at the time.

But when I run the equity calcs and assign V1 a narrow range of either sets or suited Aces (TT,77,44,A2h+) my pocket Queens have only 32% equity. This makes me think that because V1 over-shoved the pot by more than 2x, against his range I should fold in this situation. Is my (new) thinking correct?

Shove to knock out V2. Probably against a flush draw like AJs, a weak T, or straight draw. Any set is check-raising.

No. You assigned V1's range way too narrow. You can significantly discount TT, 77, or 44 because he's not spaz shoving into the preflop raiser with a hand that strong. The overbet shove is a scared bet. He wants to win it now because his hand can only get worse after the turn or he wants to see two cards with a draw. I estimate your equity at around 65% counting diamonds of A8s+/KQs/QJs/KJs/98s and half the combos of: AT-JT, T9, 98, and sets.

Bad luck V2 hit a set. In poker you can make the right decision and still lose. This is one of those times.

over bet donk shove looks pretty weak. i'm pretty comfortable shoving.

You are overthinking this hand. The SPR was barely over 2, this is an auto stack off on any board that doesn't have an ace or king.

What you should be thinking about is narrowing villains ranges to something much closer to reality. V's shove is very rarely a hand that beats you, and v2 made a mistake set mining with such a short stack even if you stack off every time he flops a set. Don't be results oriented

Snap call, expect to see Tx, FD or JJ+ here. Almost never see a set or 2 pair

lol @ folding an overpair in a pot with an SPR of ~2