7 handed 1/3 game

V sat down about an hour ago. Friends with another V who’s irrelevant here but had been driving the action otherwise. Hasn’t 3-bet or gotten out of line yet.

V starts with $450, H covers.

UTG opens to $15. H 3-bets to $50 with QQ. V 4-bets from SB to $250 leaving about $200 behind. Folds to H.

What’s Hero’s best option here? Just fold to cold 4-bet from a non-maniac? What’s if H had KK?

Gross, but yeah fold until you see some glaring reason not too.

you don't say what position your in??

with no read on V getting out of line fold

Suspiciously large 4b sizing, though still a fold imho since we're readless. KK probably much closer.

H is UTG+1

Then double fold.

I don't think preflop is an auto-3bet, but that's me, and depends on our position, how the rest of the table is playing, what we think of an UTG raise and his continuing range, our image, the fact there is no dead money in the pot and stacks are deep, etc.

Facing the cold 4bet is somewhat dependent on position (i.e. more likely to perhaps consider continuing if our 3bet was from the Button vs UTG+1), but overall without solid reads for these stacks I would mostly fold. KK is obviously a tougher situation and would likely need a had-to-be-there read on the situation.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Really easy fold

Fold. Go with KK unless you have a strong read otherwise.

Did anybody call 50 before villain 3bet?

What’s UTG perceived image? Has villain seen any tendencies from UTG, hands shown down, pfr percentages, etc?

What would hero do if he was in SB with JJ+, AK and villain 3bet UTG to 50?

It’s not a snap fold at all, its prob a tank fold, and may be closer to shove depending on some answers to above questions.


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Yes, double fold and be grateful he decided to 4bet instead of call.

Provided you don't have this insane maniac image, but I'm guessing you don't.

No callers. UTG hadn’t done anything remarkable yet.

grunch

I think you should flat call preflop in position here vs an UTG raise. You're just not going to be 3-betting very wide at all which makes QQ a very tenuous hand to have in a 3-bet range since its much closer to the bottom than normally.

I would advocate a strategy where you flat call every hand here. The raise is large enough to knock out the blinds often enough so you're getting heads up often in position and this allows you to play a lot more speculative hands (small pairs and suited connectors) and your range is not capped since it has all the overpairs too.

If you want to 3-bet AA/KK/AKo and, like A5s/A4s as bluffs I can get behind that too, but either way, I think QQ should be a call.

As played, fold seems correct here to the 4-bet.

Edit: preflop is closer to a 3-bet after learning that we're UTG+1 (I had assumed we were button). Even if we do 3-bet, it doesn't need to be so big. Just make it $35 or $40.

Pre is an easy 3-bet all day. $50 is good sizing too. As played, with no reads this looks like a sigh fold. The large 4-bet sizing is pretty suspect. The $50 3-bet already narrows the field, so if I have AA and want a call, I probably choose around 2.5x-3.5x the 3-bet sizing, so somewhere between $125 and $175. $250 seems a bit too much if he wants a call. However, it is still too large for us and we have to trust our live reads in this situation. We can't fold QQ 100% of the time to this 4-bet and we do have to mix in a few 5-bet shoves as well. Tough decision but fold here. Easy 5-bet shove KK or rack up and go home.

Atrocious advice. Shove and get snapped off by his AA 100% of the time? Even his bluffs, which he has ZERO, would still snap fold.

KK flats the 3-bet OOP 95% of the time here too. Not that it matters, since KK is crushing us anyway.

Play a little more live before you post advice that will cost someone their stack.

This.

If I call $15 at this table, we're almost certainly going at least 3-way, and maybe more.

Results - I go into the tank a bit, and fold and show. V shows KK. I'm happy

So, you're saying fold QQ 100% of the time irrespective of any live reads, since we're never calling the cold 4-bet? I can get behind that, but I do feel like that's too nitty with the third best starting hand in poker.

Dude its all about range. If your opponents don't ever raise without nutted hands then you can't call their bets.

It seems crappy to have to fold QQ but thank God your opponents play face up otherwise the games would be much harder....