Original raiser is 27/10/.8 over 200 hands. The 3bettor is 25/11/1 over 60 hands; both bought in short obv. No history. I'm some 14/11 nitpants but I doubt it matters to these guys. Getting 2.5 to 1 so i gottacallamirite?

Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $400.00
UTG+1: $319.60
UTG+2: $150.30
MP1: $551.10
MP2: $368.00
CO: $378.00
Hero (BTN): $396.50
SB: $402.85
BB: $561.20

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with Q Q
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $9, UTG+2 raises to $32, 3 folds, Hero raises to $86, 2 folds, UTG+1 raises to $319.60 all in, UTG+2 calls $118.30 all in, Hero calls $233.60

once you 4 bet you're not folding

I wouldn't have 4-bet though.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but seriously, we're good like 0% of the time when UTG+1 shoves, as this type of player doesn't play AK that aggressively. There might be arguments to be made over not four-betting in the first place, but calling this guy's shove would just be compounding that mistake.

I would fold before making the 4 bet here.

So, you never bluff-4-bet?

What about against a full stack?

With these stacks against these guys?

FYP.

Why bluff with one of the best hands you can ever be dealt? This hand should clearly be in the value portion of our range and not the bluff portion.

He means the decision when faced with the 3bet is either to fold there or to 4bet with the intention of calling a shove and we shouldn't be saying oh wow QQ I 4bet and then when faced with a shove not know what to do.

I would probably fold to the original 3 bet

I think I fold to the 3 bet too. The best you can hope for is AK when UTG+2 3bets UTG+1 (they are both so early). I would need a strong read on the villains to 4bet. As played, if you think AK is somewhat in villain's range (some people would only call a 4 bet with AK and not shove), it's a borderline call. You're getting the right odds against KK, so AA is the only hand that has you in bad shape.

WOW, nice post. Will read again. We have QQ, not Ax !

once u 4b in this spot (they seem passive,too much utg action....) ur mostly behind and put too much into pot...i would just call here with QQ in position

If we got the right odds against KK, we should have right odds against AA, too. But his chance of having AA is 1/3 less than having KK, that's why we call, right?

4 betting pre i dont like...i dont hate folding to the 3 bet either


but if we wanna play the hand my plan would be to just call the 3 bet...

since there is a shorty involved, you dont have to fear getting squeezed or bluffed...take the flop in position. if the original raisor raises you pre after you call the 3 bet cold... just fold, he isnt bluffing...ever.....you only lose 36 and are surely beat......if the original raisor folds, id gladly get it in with teh shorty if you flop an over pair....if the original raisor calls, then checks the flop and shorty bets, id min iso raise and be somehwat happy about it....if an A or a K flops, i wouldnt want to put any more money in the pot...


on a side note, if i was going to 4 bet pre, i would do it even smaller, obvsiously 4 betting gettin git in with teh shorty is the goal of a 4 bet... and utg is only going to put more money in the pot if he has aa/kk... you can just min RR preflop, makes it easier to fold if original raisor does have those hands, and saves you a little bit of money, i feel as though making it 72 looks just as strong anyways.........once you stick in 90 bucks or whatever, even tho you are looking at aa/kk a lot the odds are pretty good....id probably still fold, but that is why i dont like the 4 bet...

I would fold to the 3bet too. I don't think I'm ahead of both villain ranges.

This is really embarrassing, but can someone explain my post? :-). When I wrote it, it made perfect sense to me (altho I did have some wine). But now that I look at it again, I have no idea what assumptions I was making (or maybe because I'm sober). Anyway, I know I was factoring in card overlap between the two villains, and the fact that the stacks are uneven. I'm so confused.