$2/$5

2 EP limpers. I limp in MP with QJ. Both blinds play so its 6 to the flop

Flop ($25) QdQh4s. Checked to me and i bet $20. Only SB calls.
Turn ($65). 7c. Now he leads $40. I call.
River ($145). 8d. He shoves for $225??? Im sure this looks like an easy call for most people but it looks very suspiciously like a value bet to me. He has to know there's a high probability that I have a Q. Anyone find a fold here?

One previous hand with villain.....

I limped AK in EP because the button straddled and was short stacked and I thought chances were high that he would shove. This same villain raised to $35 in the cutoff and everyone including short stacked button folded back to me. I called.

Flop A82. I check/called $40
Turn 4. I check/called $70.
River 9. Check.check and he had QQ

Never folding here. Not raising the turn was criminal.

In regards to the previous hand.....3-bet pre

Don't induce a bluff and then fold.

Given the prev. hand - he might just be inclined to over-value made hands (at least until he meets resistance). As played - it feels like he might just have an underpair and has you on AK again until you resist.

Agree that a turn bet would have clarified things... but if he is overplaying... then it was a brilliant turn call on your part.

How am I inducing a bluff by betting the flop and calling the turn? And I didnt say I folded.

Why did you post if you just wanna argue with all the advice you get?

Surrenders initiative

I'm not arguing. Im asking how that line induces a bluff. if he checks the turn and I bet the same amount on the turn as I did on the flop that could induce a bluff check raise from a good player. I dont see how betting the flop and then calling the turn when he leads out does anything but make him bet the river again. It doesnt mean his river bet is a bluff. The overbet on the river is what I find strange

Do you think he would check OTR with his bluffs?

In his QQ hand why check OTR? All hands that he bets with also call your bet, and all hands that he beats you with he bets and you most likely still call.

This hand, it really depends on *your* reads of how he generally plays. Is he prone to bluffing if shown (semi)weakness, or is he generally playing straight forward. I can't see many bluffs in his range and this board.

From reading your OP I am leaning towards a fold OTR.
Same with your other AK hand, AP; I'd fold OTR.

Dude, really, what???

His range is everything he goes complete, call, bet, bet with, when a pair of queens flops. His bluffs are all of that, that is often second best. We don't know any of that and can't act on it without at least an estimate of his bluffing frequency.

If this guy is a nit, we can comfortably fold. If he's a spewtard, we played brilliantly and can snap call. Otherwise, we're reduced to spin the bottle.

What are you getting value from when betting 80% PSB on a QQ4r flop? Limping QJ in MP is a leak FWIW.

Hearts and live donkeys....swear half the recs I play with have never ever heard the maxim "don't go broke in limped pots" but yeah I could see donkey calls from 55-TT or hearts for sure.

Also your inducing a bluff because a Q would have raised the turn, your capping your own range by pot controlling the turn. Makes it look like you have a 99-JJ type of hand.

I kinda liked the flat on the turn in a 6max online game where your keeping in their bluffing range but in a live game like this he's right it's criminal....way way way too much value to be had from heart draws and smaller Qs, but somehow you got him to spew it off OTR anyway so snap call fist pump.

There is no heart draw on the flop bro.

SB completed pre 5-ways so he can have all lesser Qs in his range. I don't think we can fold here. I'm worried about Q8/44 specifically, thats not enough to warrant a fold. Only 60bbs eff so a wrong dec isn't amplified.

Agree that I'd prefer a raise pre w/ QJ, a limp is still profitable in most cases if you're good enough at hand reading.

Lol my bad Johnny, yeah I'm an idiot.

Limping QJ is questionable, but if you think Im not getting value from worse when I bet that flop, your games are totally different than mine.

The other day I also had QJ and bet a JJ4 flop and got called 3 times. Turn was a J and I bet and got called all 3 times again.

Good point. I probably shouldve bet that river.

I folded to villains river shove. No idea if it was correct or not though. It just smelled like a monster to me.

Pretty easy fold IMO and not a difficult line to diagnose as thick value: Limped pot, ck-c flop, lead turn, shove riv.

It's actually a hero call and those who make hero calls go broke.

You don't know the line unless you know the player.

Whats going on here...
Why are we making assumptions again that villain is a huge donkey? How is this line ever a bluff, how are we doing against his value range? Does anyone of you play q9 this way? Or q5?
Due to live spazz factor somewhat close decision, but you guys are making it sound like we are always good here. Also, "not raising turn is criminal"? Wtf?
44, 77, q7, q8, qk, maybe aq depending on his prflp passivity are still all in his range, its a mw pot, and he called a pretty big bet otf with at least 3 players behind on a qq4r board, donks turn biggish, 1,5x overbet shoves the river.
And you guys are fistpump calling when we beat maaaybe qt. If he even plays it this way...

Where are these games? I'm in the wrong city....

Tell me we folded river right? Is check call flop lead turn overshove river ever a bluff in your games? I mean it's kinda close cause we bet Q9/QT chop QJ but lose Q8/QK..

It's really not as bad as you think.

Finally got redfronted
Think its extremely flawed though, and i disagree with almost everything, starting with we want 88 to fold. But yes, i wholeheartly do disagree with a whole lot more.