My recent experience at this 1/2 casino game (where I know a couple of player) and the feeling of the session is that I am seen as a generally rock solid player. My late raises, 3b and attacking limpers gets ton of respect. This session I am trying to widening my range and look a bit more action-y.

I turn Q7dd in late position after a couple of limpers and I attack raising by 12.

The BB, a young lady I have seen playing before that looked very straightforward to me, 3b to 30. Limper folds and I decide to call. Eff stacks are about 250.

Flop comes T75xxd and the BB bets 15 into 65.

I can't fold the seven and might have a backdoor draw. I think her 3b range is quite narrow like QQ+ and AK, maybe AQs, maybe JJ.

Turn is an off-suit 9 and the BB checks.

I think the weaknessof the bet, the check and the perceived straightforwardness of this player makes me weight her more toward AK than anything.

There isn't much to gain by checking my weak pair, apart from giving her up to 6 outs, if anything betting now can buy me a free river if we both don't improve or build to another barrell on the river.

I bet 50 hoping to take the pot down.


Pre -> I think I fold for a higher raise, but not for just 2x, also there is no one else behind me
Flop -> I don't see anything but calling here?
Turn -> I think this is V dependent/perceived weakness since anything but one of her AX ace in her range is just calling

I guess my range is stronger on this flop having raised late and just called, during the hand I wasn't sure what I was trying to represent.

Preflop effective stacks and the weakness of your hand makes a fold better. SPR on flop will be <4 so any action on the flop is going to be close to pot committing and Q7s just won't flop well enough to justify it.

Flop and turn are fine given read on villain. Be warned though that if playing to have more laggy image villain will trap more. It's just something you have to adjust for with live reads.

A hand like Q7s needs a lot of Fold Euqity preflop/flop to make the openraise profitable. I think this is almost never the case in live games. Just fold it.

If you still raise it and get a 3bet it's an easy fold since this is the very buttom (even below) your opening range, even if you face a small raise. I'd prefer to call with hands that most likely are not dominated, suited somethings.

As played I dont like the turn bet. Which better hand folds, which worse hand calls? Just check it down.

I dunno, that isoraise and call 3bet might be near zero ev plays if at all. However, since it's live poker and you want to play hands I am fine with it. Flop is a clear call. Turn I would definitely check behind and try to get to showdown. Next best action is to floatbet small ~25% pot to deny equity, but I would only prefer this action if you are really sure that she holds AK-AJ, KQ and is not capable of x/raising light.

I'm still struggling so hard to conceptualise pot/stacks in live (not that I'm great online, but at least I keep spr in mind) , tension of being face to face, keeping track of the pot and villain range all adds up.

Matter of fact I strongly suspect she can't check raise light, all hands she's involved in she's usually quite passive without strong holding from what I saw.

Check raising light is such a big gap for me. I don't really keep that option much in mind and don't really think it happens a lot in these games.

I see two categories of very passive and calling people (I've seen people calling their stack off on really obvious folds or maybe I'm a nit) and some that looks to me like very competent sharks.

I partly disagree with your first point, just based on how these sessions felt. These passive weak player have been folding to me quite a lot even on obvious steal, I think they get irked by having to contest the pot with their very weak limping range oop. Since I'm usually pretty tight pre it won't happen too often so they often just give up when it does.

I also play aggressive post as much as it seems to make sense.

The ratio is not at all clear to me, definitely q7s is probably below requirement.

For the third point, is there no value in protecting the hand? I'd rather not check to have to call in the dark when a face card comes on the river and V bets (tbf thinking how I see her now I expect her to check misses and bet). But why letting her draw freely to whatever out since the 7 is very weak and I've perceived weakness here?

I fold pre in the CO or earlier. Raising on the BTN could be fine but I think it’s probably better to limp behind.

AP fold to the 2.5x 3bet.

Flop is fine.

If you put the player on AK then your turn bet is too large. A better size is 1/4 to 1/3 PSB to put AK in a tough spot. By betting large you are making her decision easy.

Of course I don't know the norms where you play, but there is no 1/2 game I've been in that a $12 bet is going to take down the pot pre with enough frequency to make it worth your while. All it is is a juicer. If you hadn't gotten a re-raise, you would have been up against at least 2 callers and almost always depending on a bluff to win.

Trying to occasionally take down the pot pre is fine, but I would have waited for at least semi connected suited cards that play better vs a raise or calls. You picked a bad hand to steal with and then you did way worse by calling the raise, turning a bad hand into a fit or fold situation.

Of course that is assuming the raiser was a reasonably competent player. I agree with your read on her range and what you are calling with is just not the right hand vs that range. Fold pre to the raise. You are not gong to fit often enough to make up for all the call/folds.

If you want to tell the table you are playing a little looser than normal and are giving more action, when you fold to her, say something like, "I was just kidding, can I have my bet back please?" All but the most clueless will see that you are opening wide and you'll get more action if that it is your goal.
As to the flop, meh. I could argue you did fine, I could argue for a raise on the flop. It's too dependent on your read of V. But the weak flop bet followed by a turn check demands a good bet and I like what you did. In 1/2, most checks are a sign of weakness and fear. Yeah, you'll run into a trickster on occasion, but if you bet into every check, you'll win more than you lose... until the table figures out you're on autopilot.

Even though the 3! is just 2.5x I'd fold because your hand performs badly against the range you gave her. You're close to a 3:1 underdog and basically have to rely on her significantly misplaying AK postflop.

Flop looks good. Turn should either be a check behind or bet in the $25-30 range. Especially if we have the read that she doesn't bluff check/raise.

Fold pre to the 3bet ainec, calling was lighting money on fire for sure. You even said her 3bet range is QQ+, so I don't know why you still called. I would have folded even if it was a 2x raise.

Turn I would have bet less, then plan on checking back the river if she checks, and obviously folding to a bet. Just a way to get to showdown cheaply in case she has AK.

Fold pre 1st time
Fold pre 2nd time
Fold flop (although this one is close at the price)
Fold turn preemptively because if you bet and take it down you'll learn a terrible lesson that will cost you way more in the long term

I think you can open this hand if its folded to you, with a couple of limpers you generally want a stronger hand since you have a lot less fold equity.

Grunch

Fold pre. Period.

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Fold pre twice. Calling the 3bet is pretty terrible. You are raising a hand which is close to a pure bluff. You need fold equity to make this worthwhile. When you get raised, you are at the bottom of your range, or should be. So you can just fold.

OP - You've gotten a lot of responses and it is rare that folks around here are so much in lock step. That's saying something. This wasn't an iffy situation, you picked a bad hand in a bad spot to do a bad steal...

... and then worst of all, badly called a raise.

About the only variance in advice is the amount you should bet on the turn.

I think as a general rule in 1/2, the player pool doesn't raise nearly often enough with marginal hands from LP. The good news is that your urge is in the right place. Keep looking for spots. Don't try it until you've taken at least an initial read on all the players at the table. You can do that in an orbit or two.

And then don't be afraid to fold when re-raised. There is no shame in folding to a tight player who is never going to reraise without premiums.

The open isn't horribly depending on your exact position and your postflop skill. It is an absolute fold to the 3-bet. Calling is burning money. Your call indicates you're either on tilt or just not very good and either way I think this hand is just a train wreck.

I actually think the open is worse than the 3bet call

The open is worse because we are often multiway and our hand rarely flops good enough to outplay numerous opponents

The 3bet call is wtver, probably slightly ev- but we have position against somewhat a faceup range and a easy to play opponent. As we can see from the hand opponent seems to have given up on the turn after a smallish cbet so there’s not really any pressure from her.

Obviously if bb 3bet 3x+ then its a easy fold

I would have folded pre but if you are still viewed as "rock solid" and get "tons of respect" 4! pre likely limits her range enough so she is nearly playing face up if she calls and you win immediately vs part of her range. I'd prefer fold over the 4! but the 4! over a call. YMMV

Thanks for the summary, clearly I was out of line in this hand and lucked out. Most dangerous situation long term, so thanks everyone for all the feedback, I do appreciate it!

There are details that crop up from all your answers, biggest one is

Raising

This hand is too wide a raise, even wanting to loosen our image. Wait, pick better spots.

I might have her range down, but how does my hand perform against it? Is it profitable to call that raise?



If I understand things correctly 2.5 pot odds against a 2.5x raise means I am breaking even [i am ok with percentages probability, but pot odds are a new way to conceptualize it, so any input is great here]. Of course, I am then OOP and can't justify the call with my post-flop skills.

Keep on the details
At the table I am not making super precise calculation because I am still overwhelmed by the amount of things going on, so in my mind I simplified to oh this is about 2x. You guys zooming in on the exact sizing is good for me to see, there is always some more care that can be applied to the details.

There is no shame in folding to a reraise
Thinking back this factored in for sure, filed under mental game.

Sizing the turn correctly

Only hand that makes sense to bet against is AK. Betting smaller makes sense both to try and get them in a hard spot/extract thin value from it and also saves money when they have the better part of their range.

Arguing with pure preflop equity to justify your call makes little sense. You are assuming that you would go straight to showdown, which is not the case, because there are still three rounds of betting to come. You have to argue with playability, and it's infact poor with Q7s, since 1) you are dominated by better Qx in case you hit TP (same applies for trips, but less likely), 2) lets say you hit a pair of 7s, then you are blocking potential bluffcombos of villain with your Q, 3) even if you hit a flush, you could lose a lot against a better flush. There are only few scenarios, where you can realize your equity.

That 3bet range is way too wide for live. Most straightforward 1/2 players are 3betting QQ+,AK. Rarely JJ. Not AQ/KQs/KJs/AJs

Assuming 2 limps you are calling 18 in an eventual pot of 65 (limps + 2 times 30) , so you’re required equity is 18/65=27%.

P.S. You’re not OOP.

I'd much rather call with 76s than Q7s here because the Queen is so dirty when you flop top pair.

lol thanks

That most makes sense to me, I was just looking at the equity as an exercise in dotting the i's.


I am not sure I understand this though?