1/2 at Local casino - 6pm - Sunday, 8 handed

Table is very weak, 5 players were either tight passive or loose passive, the only slightly aggressive player (V1) is to my left.

V1 (£320) - Mid 40s long term grinder of tournaments, have had couple of major results in the days. I have not seen him do well on cash game since playing with him with 2 years ago. Bluff with air too much and generally play too many hand OOP etc. 1 orbit before this hand I had QQ UTG, I raised to £13, V1 calls. Heads up. Flop came 34Thh, I cbet £18, V1 raised to £43, I over jammed and said "You wanna run twice?", V1 folded.

Earlier V1 call on button with 84dd when I had 88, flop came 56Qdd, chks round, turn 3h, chks to V1 and he semi bluff, someone else called, river brick, V1 bet 3/4 pot and showed the bluff.

V2 (£350) - Loose passive fish to my right (I moved to my current seat was to target his stack), limp call any raise in any position. Give up on flop mostly after missing.

Hero (£500) - Started playing 1.5 hour ago, have been solid but increasingly loosening up because of the weakness of the table, will play any suited hand, boardway hand in position. Have not been called down any bluff/ semi bluff, I could say I was the table captain.

Hero dealt Q4hh on button

V3 limps, V2 limps, Hero limps, V1 completes, V4 checks.

(£10)

Flop Hero shouted "Spade!" just as flop comes

J82

checks to V2 bets £10, Hero raised to £25, V1 calls, V2 calls

(£85)

Turn

T

Checks to Hero bets £75, V1 calls, V2 folds

(£235)

River

2

V1 Jams £218.

Hero wanted to puke all over the table but resisted.

I can't see how V1 could play Kx this way, if he had any 6 combos of Ax (Excluding AKhh as he would have raised PF) the only reason he did not raise on turn was because of V2. 82s, J2s could certainly be in his limping range, that leaves us 1 combo of 22 + 4 combos of J2/ and 82/82 - Hero beats everything else. You call?

You have to call the described V here.

Based on your descriptions Kx "could certainly be in his limping range" and why not A-Rag?

I am folding because I think the shove on the river is for value.

Your raise on the flop is probably seen as pretty strong. I think if either opponent put you on a draw with the Ah they would put their money in with a set or 2 pair. Since they just called and checked on the turn, they strongly consider that you flopped the flush. I don't think he is bluffing for 218 into a 235 pot when you have shown so much strength.

How does everyone view a player's call out for specific cards? I play with a guy from time to time that calls out cards maybe 5-6 times a session. I've played with him for years and if I had to guess he is exactly 50/50 for needing what he calls out. How do you all view this as a strategy to mix it up? How do you react to it? I think it affects me unless I have a monster which is really not a good situation because he does this a lot in raised multiway pots. I've thought about maybe trying this out but this guy has the personality to make it work better for him if that makes sense.

Given your read that V1 is a tournament player, I'd be strongly inclined to fold, but I don't know if I could. The thing is that when a tournament player flops a non-nut flush, he's usually going to raise to protect his hand on the flop or turn. You already raised the flop for him, so he doesn't raise the flop, but I bet if he had a small flush he would have raised the turn out of fear that you or V2 had the A and would draw out.

Another important factor here is that V1 is OOrP as well as OOaP on both streets when he calls. If he has a strong hand, the reason he's calling rather than raising is to string along V2. But again, if he had a "vulnerable" hand, he'd be raising to protect, not hoping V2 also calls.

So that leaves only three possibilities: either V1 flopped the nut flush and is coming alive on the river, as so many players who flop the nut flush do; or V1 flopped a set and wants value from your flopped flush now that he boated up (he can't have 88?); or V1 has the A and is bluffing. I'm strongly inclined to believe it's the first one--since a lot of tournament players would semi-bluff with the A earlier in the hand if they were going to bluff--but I don't know if I could fold. I definitely don't think this is a king-high flush (though could be wrong obviously)--it's the ace-high flush or boat/quads or a bluff.

We made this hand more difficult by seeing the flop multi-way. I think this needs to be a raise or fold pre specifically to avoid this type of RIO situation. Flop raise sizing is fine since we bet the turn hard to give naked Ah poor odds to draw. River shove can be for value or as a bluff here. Given history I think V is bluffing enough to make this an ok call. I would much prefer to just not get into this situation ever, but here we are.

This is why I hate multiway limped pots with a trash hand. You almost never flop the nuts and if you don't flop the nuts you have absolutely no idea of where you are in the hand. I understand we are on the button and we have the possibility to make a strong flush but most times if you actually flop a flush you are going to get no action (because the board is too scary for others to continue) or you're going to find yourself in a spot like this.

I would not be surprised if V had a smaller flush in this spot but as played I think you have to fold. I take the naked Ah out of his range because it doesn't make sense for him to semi-bluff with the Ah on the flop from the small blind because there is too much potential to be raised (which is exactly what happened). If all he has is the Ah it makes more sense for him to check and hope for a free card or a small bet that he can call and get decent pot odds and good implied odds.

Therefore he either has a smaller flush (which I think checks the scary river hoping to get a cheap showdown), a bigger flush (we lose) or a boat (lose again). Therefore I'm folding.

The Villain bet pot on the flop. We bet half pot. How could our bet have given him poor odds? We gave him much better odds than he wanted or was giving himself.

In general what raising the flop does in spots like this is that it ensures that the Villain doesn't mistakenly lose their stack, drawing almost dead, with AJs.

In fact our whole line seemed to be focused on ensuring that the Villain folded all hands worse than ours.

This hand was misplayed, at least, pre-flop, flop, and turn.

The only hand that you beat in this spot is AhXx. I can't see him bluff shoving here with any other hands in his range on the river.

However, there are plenty of hands in his range that have you beat now. 88, J2, 82, and I would totally include AhXh/KhXh as well. V1 most likely knows that V2 is a station/fish as well, so he might have avoided raising previously in the hand to avoid losing the fish.

I'm fine with how you played the hand up until this point. I would puke/fold here, even against the described aggro villain.

You said it better.

Very good analysis and I figured I only have to be good 1/3 of times for this to be a profitable call. V1 simply has too many bluff and lower flush in his range. After reading all the comments, I am not entirely happy either call or fold.

Was there a chance for you to move seats OP? If so you definitely should, you were in the worst seat at the table.

As for the hand, this is a clear fold (somewhere that I'd spew call because these scenarios are the weakest part of my game). He bet almost pot and given your line you're completely representing the flush, I don't expect him to try and rep a boat as a bluff at all. V1 check/cold called the flop and called a large bet OTT out of position. My gut feeling is he is absolutely not bluffing this river. And he almost certainly could have Kxhh or Axhh because raising AT- out of the small blind is a total spew, and he knows that. I would only be calling here with Axhh or better because we can't expect J2 or 82 a whole lot even though he completed from the SB getting 7-1 pre.

quads are hard to make. doesn't sound like the type of villain to limp JJ preflop. if he has 88, i guess he got the better of you, but i'm not folding versus this guy.

I have to say that the hand he actually had makes a lot of sense from a tournament player, and is, of course, why I said you have to call here.

Wish results hadn't been posted yet. But give my 2 cents anyway.

He is betting this river for value 98% of the time. Unless we have reads that he only takes this line with nuts. We have to call given the odds. He is definitely gonna show up with boats often. And bigger flushes. But he only had pot size bet left. Leaving us plenty of room to be wrong the majority of the time.


SIDE NOTE:

This is just 1 more thread where people say they can't call with worse. This is 1/2 guys. People are always calling with worse. On turn we should be value betting alot of hands. Including Top pair, 2 pair, sets.