Try calling the whole stack withTP2K with flush draw atleast 5 times and post the +/- EV results. If there was leveling war going on btwn hero and villain, and OP needed instant/self gratification for coming on top, good for him.

Nice call sir. Goes to show how good live games are

+1

It wasn't a leveling war and not for self gratification. If you have an issue with my line please explain why it is minus ev and why your line is more plus ev given his likely range in this spot. You seem to want to just stick it in yolo style, why? We don't even leverage position then

At llsnl, when people get thier stacks in, 95% of the time, winning hand is better than TP2K. I myself have won stacks with AQ high (A high Q kicker) a couple of times because i had the read on villain. But it doesn,t mean i will get my stacks in with TP2K everytime. Your line sounded to me like you are not sure if you thought yourTP2K was good, or you wanted to chase flush draw. You are being result oriented. If i m being result oriented too, if you had shoved turn, he would have folded AJ or if the river was a J, you would have lost. If he can show up with AJ, he can also show up with AK. What i m trying to say is its -EV to call down stacks without knowing where you stand.

so the few people here who said raise for value on flop or turn you completely ignore then say u think you played this optimally.

i understand we all have our own thoughts but why dd you post this hand as PAHWM if you think every decision you made is the right one?

nice hand

I am not by any means 100% certain in my views on this hand, so I wanted to hear the arguments for playing this hand differently. River is a ****ty spot and I wondered if we could somehow avoid it without giving up value. I don't think anyone has yet to give a convincing argument for raising, but I'm sure one exists and I'd like to hear it. Or see if anyone disagrees with my river thinking, etc. At the same time if I post a hand I think had multiple options but believe a certain way is optimal I'm not going to just change my view because some guy said raise, with poor reasoning.

MK you have given the best reason so far which is attempting to get value from clubs and potentially worse Ax. With regards to that it does depend how wide he is pre, but given my reads seems like you could be right in that regard. Sucks if we miss $600 of value vs Clubs or medium A

Ok so you dislike river call and I totally understand why. So let's say that's minus ev and a mistake, does the hand in the long run become more plus ev by raising flop or turn? Or are we better off calling trying to hit IO?

the only real decisions are pre-flop imo and you took a justifiable line among good options.

flop std, turn std, river is marginal but you've just told us that 3 ppl got AK in pre for 1500 a-piece so the game's capable of showing you less than AK in this spot and you've gotta call.

nh.

yea. OBV i don't agree on flop but your line isn't bad, at least you didnt shove or fold. Rest of hand seems std besides river which is a bit tougher.

Im sorry if it came off rude just I always thought PAWHM were supposed to be discussions on every street and such.

either way nh and nice call on river.

late to the the dance.

I prefer 3 betting pre. If we are not 3betting AQ suited, just think our 3 betting range is to narrow.

I would also call the 3 bet pre with position.

Flop is great. I would check/raise flop. Jam turn. You don't get better hands to fold. But we get alot of worse hands to call.

We still get called by some weaker Aces. Some KK (alot from tilted player). Quite often we get called light, by wide range. Because we wouldn't be raising an Ace in this spot. So our range looks very draw heavey. Tilted player will tend to call super light. Amazing what we get called by. Because our raise looks FOS. This sets us up for turn Jam. Where we have still have 12 outs to catch up to AK. Still get get hero called from AJ, maybe A10suited, possible KK (doubtful)

What I am trying to say. Is by raising flop. I disagree that he gets to play perfect. Folding worse raising better. I think we force him to sometimes make huge mistakes. Turn is very tough decision for him. Where he can also make big mistakes. Plus we get to realize our full equity. 100% of the time.

Think he is just as likely to make mistakes, by us raising. As opposed to us counting on him to bluff river.

Him turning AJ into a bluff does give your line good credit. He obviously would have alot of other bluffs in his range.

However, I do think we make a mistake by raising flop. Betting turn. But I believe (know) we are getting called alot lighter than people on this forum ever admit.

Do you guys think there are like thresholds for playing this hand differently. Like we GII on flop less than 100bb, flat from 100bb-???, then at some depth we can actually play this best with a raise since villain will be in a terrible spot with anything besides AA. If so where do you think it occurs, I honestly don't know. I think entire decision in this hand is on the flop.

Oh didn't see it was a straddled pot. That changes things and means the CO open has more of a standard range which widens the bluffing frequency of the squeezer. And a higher bluffing frequency from the squeezer makes raising flop or turn terrible and river a profitable call.

not that that matters in llsnl no one pays attention to this you definitely should be careful I wait for only the best spots to 3b this hand cuz you can stack bit ches post with AQs and you have to throw it away to 4bets and AK might flat your 3bet which is super dangerous... I once folded for 3 hours at 2.5 and 3bet KK to 130 and got called in 3 spots eventually losing to the mighty 10J that rivered a flush against the poor guy who had flopped a set of 4s so I was just way behind these sharks


Im not sure, obviously with 400-500bb its more room to manuever with the flop raise but the inherent dynamics of that move might just be the same, hes never going to be in a terrible spot with anything besides AA cuz he has a couple other sets there he definitely gets to be in a pretty pukey situation with 2p but can probably still easily peel one and get out, only thing hes crying about is AK which does give merit to the flop raise but I dont know i think such a move is better at higher limits where you CANT stack a kid by binking your nut flush i think thats KEY and where a kid might actually lay down AK to your flopraise.turnshove combo, i doubt most llsnl villians lay down there they hem and haw and say fk it too often so that line turns completely terrible in that scenario

Grunching mostly

Pre is fine. I like taking a flop with nut suited ip. A 3b is fine for thin value and iso. I prob 3b aqo 80% and aqs 20%.

Calling the squeeze ip deep seems fine too.

Flop and turn has to be call. Gotta keep air in his range. Don't think he's folding ak so raising as a bluff is bad.

River is super close. If you think you have some tilt equity then call. I don't think he has worse for value. Pretty shocked by the actual result. Clearly he's pretty bad agro. He had the nut hand to c/c river to catch your bazillion missed fd combos

Edit: actually facing that turn sizing I'm dumping non combo fds. But I guess they don't know that

Think a flop raise at any stack depth is pretty bad tbh. Unless you have history that he'll bet/call JJ -kk type hands. Which you can't possibly have in limited live sample

Keep his range wide and your perceived range wide

If you are raising flop its not to fold...
Its bc you have plenty of equity in the pot to stack off with...

Any hands you raise flop on this board?

Yep raising for big fat value.

Nuts (sets/2pr) and bluffs (preferably something with a backdoor). Readless my bluffing frequency is really low assigning the average player a lot of big aces in their 3b/cbet range. A lot of guys (regs and fish) check jj-kk

A lot of posters are confusing the fact that we have huge equity against any range meaning we have to raise. Obviously we have a super duper strong hand and draw to the nuts.

If you raise he can fold so many of the hands we either dominate or crush for free. It also restricts him from barreling off with nothing. He's not calling worse, he's not folding better so it's a call. This is a huge concept that applies to many situations.

Not only that, we have position! It's not like calling the flop restricts us for playing for stacks by the river.

Thank you for making my point. I like to 3bet with wider range. 1 it balances. But mostly for value. We are getting called by worse hands alot. We have position, and the mistakes they make post flop are bigger. Due to size of pot.

Ever think they called preflop because your 3 bet range is polarized to AA KK. So small pairs can call and set mine. Knowing you will have hard time folding over pair. Same with 10-J. May gamble pre. Because he can play perfect postflop.

I just 100% disagree that he doesn't call with worse.

He isn't bluffing 3 streets often either. Not like he is bluffing 3 streets with KK. He butchered this hand. Hard time believing he is folding all AX to a raise. If heis calling AK 100% of the time. Highly doubt he is folding AQ and AJ 100% of time.