4 hrs in 2/3

Hero $200 effective

Image
Hero: Nit
Villains: mix bag of loose passive and LAG

OTTH

Hero 99 in bb
Utg Straddle
Call MP+2
Call from cutoff
Hero calls for $3 more
Utg straddle option makes it $20 more
Call MP+2
Call from cutoff
Hero sees 8-1 and calls $20 more closing the preflop action

Flop $130?
9hQh4c

Hero BB check
Straddle bets out $20
Call from MP+2
Call from cutoff

Hero?

So is the UTG a loose passive or a loose aggressive?

I'm going to point out that IO doesn't equal stack size divided by bet size. Your IO are smaller than 8:1. As for the hand, the small bet polarizes his range to monsters or bluffs. So either you're going to lose the hand or win nothing more than what is in the pot when you raise in most cases.

The pot is bloated already and there are mulitple draws. Just stick all your chips in the pot. This is a super easy all in.

Did straddle make it $20 or $26? Either way the pot can't be $130 on the flop with only 4 callers preflop.

It matters a lot when looking at pot odds and implied in this sort of situation. Assuming there are 4 people to the flop, if he made it $20 your max IO including what is in the pot is over 18, if he made it $26 then it's under 14. In the first case I would call unless the straddle is likely to give up post flop a lot. The second is pretty thin and I'm only calling if I expect straddle to stack off a lot.

The difference may be small but it's critical for getting to +EV. For $20 you are getting in cheap enough that one bet post flop is enough to get you around break even. For $26 you need multiway action or a second bet.

As played check/shove the flop is fine. The small bet from the straddle is annoying but the board is wet and the pot is big enough that the only reasonable raise size is a shove. Hope somebody puts you on a draw and calls with QX or calls with some sort of draw themselves.

Utg straddle made it a total of $26 and everyone including me put in $20 more pre ($6+$20)

I x/shoved

Utg straddle folded

MP and cutoff both called

8d turn
Ts river

MP mucked saying he missed his flush draw (he stacked off)
Cutoff showed Q8 and mucked

Why are you set mining with premiums? Raise pre the first time and shove pre the second time.

x/shove the flop is fine.

99s are going to leave me in a sick spot post flop oop

I won’t know what to do first to act on many boards

So I’m set mining here because I know how to x/f on most boards

You're only getting IO of about 13:1 or so, which is pretty horrible for setmining. I'm fine with the initial complete the first time around, but the second time around is either a fold or jam, imo. If straddler often raises his straddle with weak holdings, I'm fine with taking the high variance route here and jamming thanks to the huge dead money relative to stacks, but folding otherwise.

Board is pretty drawy and we only have $180 left in a huge $130 pot; I'd mostly just open jam especially if there are any passive players in the mix (where I can't expect a stab). As played, we only have a ~PSB left on a drawy board vs 3 opponents; anything other than a jam seems pretty horrible, no?

ETA: As it turns out, I think you made about 21:1 or so on the preflop call of the raise (which looks pretty good on the surface), but this required 2 opponents going all-in with you postflop (which is very rarely going to happen, especially with you in the lead), plus of course they had outs to suck out (where you lose your stack when they hit which has to be factored into the overall profitability of preflop). IO for setmining are highly misunderstood by most (imo), and mostly you never have them in a raised pot with small stacks (such as the 66bb stack you started with, which could even be seen as lol 33bb thanks to the straddle).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Will someone please clarify proper correct odds to set mine? I thought 8-1 is okay but 9-1 is ideal

And if someone already said it in here I’m sorry for missing it

Live in play I knew I was doing something wrong when I closed the action throwing in another $20 pre

You're only going to hit a set about 8:1.

But that doesn't mean that if the effective stack is that much (or more) that it's a call. Far from it.

First, we lose a bunch of the time when we flop a set, so those losses have to be factored in. Even when we somehow manage to get in stacks on the flop with a set versus an overpair, that overpair is still going to suck out about 10% of the time.

Second, there will be lots of times when we flop a set and don't make any money. How much money are we making versus AK with 44 on a 954r flop? Or versus KK with 44 on a A54r flop? And yet when we don't flop a set we'll often be forced to fold the flop (even when we unknowingly have the best of it).

Third, it depends on how many people are in the pot. If the whole world calls the raise, we're likely getting very close to our required IO right off the bat, and will only need one small bet to get paid off postflop to get into profits (and any one of the opponents can pay us off). Compare that to the time where we call a raise HU, where we'll need 3 postflop bets to go in postflop against our lone opponent to make money.

Fourth, even with big stacks, if we're OOP against a good opponent, we almost never have the IO. Give us 44 in a 1/3 NL game with $10,000 stacks. Folds to the Button who raises. Do we have the correct IO to make the call from the BB HU? What if I told you the Button was Phil Ivey? People throw around needing 20x or 25x like it's "standard", but here we have 3300+:1, and yet a fold would still be the correct play.

Gyoudon'thavenearlytheIOyouthinkyoudoG

With $200 in a 2/3 game, I raise the UTG's $20 more -- and I go pretty big. I'm fine winning the pot right now, and I'm also fine gii pre in this situation w/ 99.

As played, shoving is the only option.

not sure where you're getting 130 OTF

SB: 2
BB: 3
UTG: 6
HJ: 6
CO: 6
BB: 3
UTG: 20
HJ: 20
CO: 20
BB: 20

by my count that is $106

as far as set mining, it's $20 to you, there is $86 in the pot (4.25:1) + assuming UTG has you covered, thats a 174/20, or 8.7:1, so you basically have 13:1 to call in direct+implied odds

is it great? no. would i call if i played it like this? usually. would i play it like this? probably not.

define "a bunch of the time" please.

About 10% of the time (more-or-less). If he hasn't already hit his overpair on the flop he'll hit it about ~8% by the river (plus another ~1% for going runner/runner on us for a straight/flush).

The point is, when factoring in the profitability of setmining you have to factor in the good (the IO of hitting a set and stacking someone) with the bad (the RIO of hitting a set and losing our stack).

GcluelesssetminingnoobG