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Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker?

05-07-2024 , 07:57 PM
Blinds $1-$2. Game is $2-$100 spread—$100 over the previous bet is the max you can bet.

I open AhJd in the HJ to $8, CO calls, SB calls. Three ways.

FLOP: Th8h3s (pot: $25, 3-ways. SB checks, I can turn some stuff so I bet $10, CO calls, SB folds.

TURN: Th8h3s 2d (pot: $45, heads-up). I check, he checks.

RIVER: Th8h3s 2d 5h (pot: $45, heads-up)

I lead for the $100 max.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-07-2024 , 09:12 PM
Only thing is sometimes people call bluff catchers more when we go for a really big size because "it looks more bluffy" like we would want to get paid if we had value and wouldn't bet so big. I would go for something closer to pot size, I think 60 would be good, so just a small overbet not so obviously big.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 05:21 AM
Agree with above, bet 60 which still feels huge relative to how much has gone in so far.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 12:58 PM
I'd prefer checking flop when we're sandwiched between two opponents, rather than c-betting. If we want to c-bet, I'd go larger, with a plan to size up when we improve or pick up equity on the turn, or check when we don't.

Turn is a brick that shouldn't hit anyone's range. How would you play AA here? V shouldn't have much 2P+ when he flat calls flop. Think I'd barrel big.

As played, going bet-check-bet is often a bluffy line that will get loose calls. We're only repping the rivered flush for value, so we can probably bet smaller, like 2/3 to full pot, and expect to fold out all his 1P lower than TP with any decent kicker. In V's spot I might call with JT or better, and fold T9 or worse.

It's worth noting that he might have also been on a flush draw, so betting huge is just torching money.

Honestly, I wouldn't hate a check. We have some showdown value. He might check back and we'll win sometimes. We might also bluff catch, or even occasionally check raise as a bluff. We have the right card to do it, blocking the nuts.

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Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 02:14 PM
How much would you bet if you actually had the nut flush? Bet that amount.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 02:36 PM
id barrel the turn if i decided to cbet
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 03:37 PM
The bet makes no sense after it went c/c ott and having the nut blocker doesn't mean he won't call with a flush (and he'll most likely look you up with much worse since the bet doesn't make any sense). The way you bluff with nut blockers is if otr you bet with 3 hearts on the board, he raises you, and you then jam all in for like 2x pot and he'll say "he has to have the nut flush here I fold".
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
The bet makes no sense after it went c/c ott and having the nut blocker doesn't mean he won't call with a flush (and he'll most likely look you up with much worse since the bet doesn't make any sense). The way you bluff with nut blockers is if otr you bet with 3 hearts on the board, he raises you, and you then jam all in for like 2x pot and he'll say "he has to have the nut flush here I fold".
I'd prefer check-raising over betting-3B'ing as a bluff, if only because it costs us less when we get looked up the first time we bet, and a lot less if we get looked up when we 3B.

Some guys are simply incapable of folding any flush here, no matter how we play our hand. Might as well try to find the most optimal line.

If we do want to go bet-3B, I suppose we should bet REALLY small, to make it look like we were inducing V to raise. Taking that sort of line is pretty savage, but it relies on V being able to understand how infrequently it's taken as a bluff, and relies on V being able to still find the fold.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docvail
I'd prefer check-raising over betting-3B'ing as a bluff, if only because it costs us less when we get looked up the first time we bet, and a lot less if we get looked up when we 3B.
We would be betting bigger as a bluff to fold him out otr not knowing he has a flush, and we're also trying to fold out the majority of his range as well which is why we bet the river big. If we bet small he'll be calling with everything that beats us, but if we lead out for 3/4 pot and he raises us and it's a player who we know would assume we have the ace we can get med to small flushes to fold (and sets, two pair that also beat our ace high)
Quote:
Originally Posted by docvail
If we do want to go bet-3B, I suppose we should bet REALLY small, to make it look like we were inducing V to raise. Taking that sort of line is pretty savage, but it relies on V being able to understand how infrequently it's taken as a bluff, and relies on V being able to still find the fold.
We would never wanna get 3bet on purpose just for a chance to bluff with the ace, and even if we c/r him he still already committed more money so he won't wanna give that up he'll call to see what we have anyway.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 09:28 PM
Ok

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Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 09:33 PM
mmm, you know why it sucks? Because there was one more guy OTF

So, the CO probably folds 77, 66, 44, maybe even weak 8x. And hands like KJo probably just fold on the flop.

You need all these hands in your opponent's range to make this bluff easier. But now you are really in a tough spot. The standard play would be to give up here. But the bluff can be good if you're sure that he folds Tx.

The bluff is standard and good if your opponent has 77, 66, 44, and all 8x hands. It's not standard and becomes tricky if not.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote
05-08-2024 , 11:26 PM
There are some cards I would check turn when I had the NFD, but 2d probably isn't one of them unless I had reads that V really had it.

So mostly I'd bet 25 turn, and 100 river if I had Ah9h or whatever. Which means I probably don't bluff this hand here.
Proper bluff bet size with the Nut Flush Blocker? Quote

      
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