How do you beat a table that loves to limp? One of my home games, some micro-stakes tables, and even some of the 1/2NL tables at my casino are filled with people that just limp pre-flop. They may even call raises with crap. Often I have 5-6 people see the flop. What can you do to fight this? I need advice for both pre-flop and post-flop

You mentioned NL - this is the limit forum. Did you mean for your question to apply to both?

I'd say this is applicable at limit and no limit.

Well, it depends. Preflop is easy: get in the hand with the best of it, and raise. Not only will this be immediate value (if you have 20% equity vs 5 other players, then every $1 that goes into the pot among the 6 gives you $1.20 back, or a 20% ROI. Bernie Madoff would envy that kind of return), but growing the pot will also help you realize your own hot/cold equity.

Secondly, you'll likely have to play a showdown-based game. Here's an extreme example: say when you have 20% equity against collective ranges, all 5 other players agree to go all in for the smallest effective stack and check it down among the other players. You'd gladly play this game, because you know you're going to come out of this a massive favorite. So effectively, you have to play this game anyway, being sure to get your hand to showdown without a compelling reason not to. I played a 40 limit session last weekend, and one guy at my table was doing things like 3 betting UTG raises with 86s. Yes, he'll occasionally get to flop his 754, and you'll hit your A on the turn when holding AQ to ensure you get to pay off, but in general, it's not a horrible thing to give people playing such wide, weak ranges in inappropriate spots the money. In the long run, my range is a good 64:36 favorite against his, and that gap is difficult to overcome.

Yes I meant for this to be in NL. It was 3 AM so I was kind of out of it lol my bad.

So what do you do against maniacs in these games? I played in a game yesterday where people were calling pre-flop raises with crap like 8-4o. And the two times I played back at them, I ended up with QQ vs KK and AQ vs AK. Idk how to counter an entire table of constant donk betting.

The only way to counter maniacs is with a big bankroll. That's why I only play limit hold'em - I can't afford to plop $200 down on the table every time I want to look somebody up.

Think about it like this: a maniac at the table is raising 50% of his hands and c-betting 100% of flops. How often does he have *one stinking pair* - not necessarily TOP pair, but *one stinking pair*? Answer: About 40% of the time. period. If you call his raise with, for example, T9s, the flop comes T74r and he c-bets, chances are you're way, way, way ahead of him, and you need to look him up. If he just happened to have 74s on that one hand you just have to say FML - you lose out on too much value the 9 times you *are* ahead of him if you play every hand like it's the 1 time you aren't.

I was at a table once where a guy was raising basically everything he was dealt in position, getting 3 or 4 callers, c-betting the flop, taking it down and showing 53o. Your own cards don't matter if the villains are afraid to look you up with anything less than top pair.

Hope this made sense - good luck at the no-limit tables.

EDIT: Let us know if you ever want to play some *real* poker and we'll teach you the superior game of LHE

OP, you might find this series of articles I wrote interesting, especially chapter 2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...18/?highlight=

The bottom line is you can't play every hand like you want to win *that hand*. Like in the case of AQ vs. AK or KK vs. QQ. You can't look at it like, what do I do in *this hand* - you have to look at it from the perspective of, if I'm in this exact situation 1000 times, how many out of 1000 times am I ahead?

For example (your example), you've done a fair amount of raising and a certain villain has been calling a lot of your raises. You've seen that villain show down 84o, T8o, J9s and TT. You now have QQ, you raise and the villain calls. If you're in this situation 1000 times, how often does the villain have AA, KK or for that matter AK (which you don't mind so much)? I don't want to overdwell on the math, but the bottom line is if you make this bet 1000 times and win even 550 of them much less 800 of them you come out way, way ahead in the end. You just have to have enough bankroll to ride out the swings.

Hope that made any sense at all.

You've gotten some good responses, so probably to late to move this to LLSNL. In any game, bad players are good for you. Say it out loud "if I'm good, I have to be able to beat bad players". NL, LHE, 27TD, or O/8, it doesn't matter. Terrible loose/passive players are profitable opponents. Especially in NLHE, you can horribly punish their mistakes. If you have trouble with these opponents it is because

• you've run poorly in the short run
• you have huge fundamental holes in your game
• you've memorized a fixed strategy vs. a "standard" opponent and you aren't skilled enough to correctly adjust (really this is the same as the one above)

In multiway limped pots in NL, you have to be aware of how much stronger the winning hand is going to be than normal. Going broke with top pair or even two pair could be a huge mistake in a limped pot. If 6 people put in 1bb preflop and then 99bb goes in post, have a hand worth your stack and not a bluff catcher or a nice HUHU hand.