Facing a raise in a 1/3 live game, let's assume players are unknown what is your flatting range and from what positions and how does your flatting range change as the raisers position changes? I'm trying to work on this part of my game I think I'm playing too many hands. Let's assume the raise size is 3-5x. I feel like I have a good grasp of raising when first in, but how about calling someone else's raise.

OMG just find some charts, although not sure if those charts will be appropriate for 5x live game open sizes.

That is a topic too big to get a coherent answer here. There isn't a simple default because everything matters.

There are a couple of issues that just make this impossible to answer. First, bet sizes and stack sizes can force huge adjustments of what you should play. Second, both villain's position and your position matter. Third, you can't treat an unknown opponents range is an average of a tight and a loose range. It isn't a linear problem that you can just average the top and bottom ranges. Fourth, your range against unknown opponents needs to be different then ranges against known opponents. Because you have less information playing an unknown opponent doesn't work exactly the same as playing a known opponent. Fifth, what the rest of the people at the table are doing matters also. Again, not in a linear way. Not only does how tight you need to play change based on how aggressive the rest of the table is but what kind of hands you want to play changes.

In a nut shell, you shouldn't have a flatting range unless you have a multiway hand such as a pocket pair or high suited ace to be thinking about flatting. You should always either raise or fold for the most part (especially at your level). And don't automatically 3bet because the initial raiser raised in MP and you have KQ in the CO. You need to be thinking about their opening range and how loose or tight they are when deciding to either raise or fold.

Yeah that's kinda what I was looking for the general idea of if we should play more of a 3bet or fold strategy I can select hands on my own and change them based on information on opponents just seems like flatting preflop puts is in a lot of situations we're we have to play fit or fold just throwing away money unless it's HU and the opportunity arrives to take it away when the raiser goes into passive mode. Seems like our flattening range is mainly hands we don't mind going multiway with? Otherwise we 3-bet or fold looking to isolate?

Yeah, when we flat pre we're often left in no man's land post flop. If you know the hand will go multiway, it's ok to call with SC's, suited aces or broadway cards, or suited one or two gappers if you're in position.

You should have a 3bet range of ATo, KTo, KJo, KQo at the top and K7s or A8o at the bottom. The more you're villains fold to 3bets and the wider they open pre, the lighter you should 3bet but this is just in general, we usually have to follow through on the flop/turn/river potentially, so again we're not 3betting hoping they fold pre but if we have initiative we can win with ace high even when they call a cbet but fold on the turn.

Kinda realize I was bleeding chips by flatting. I really don't like taking the passive route preflop unless in position, I'd much rather be the aggressor and it seems like even still flatting seems okay if the conditions are right like a hand such as suited connectors like 56-T9s, 22-JJ facing a tight utg raise who overplays overpairs and there is other callers involved as well cause of we have some implied odds, but should be folding hands like QJ-KQ,AJo,ATo because we're too easily dominated in a roi situation. Is my thinking sound?

You need some more assumptions. At the very least what are the stack sizes? 100bb, 200bb? How many players 7, 8 9? What is the actual open? 3x is different from 5x. Obv go tighter vs the larger size. The players are unknown, but what is the general aggressiveness of the games at these limits assuming it isn't your first time playing. Also rake is a consideration. The higher the rake the tighter you should be. So marginal hands on the border become clear folds.

The deeper you are and the more passive the players are the more flatting opportunities you will have since you get to realize your equity in a broader array of spots and less likely to get squeezed.


Generally the more people left to act behind you the tighter you should be.
So vs UTG if you're NTA default should really be no flats. But if you're super deep w/ passive calling station fish and a game where people only 3 bet QQ+ then of course you can flat almost anything from anywhere.

Go look at some GTO charts to get an idea of what is optimal meaning what would your ranges look like in a game playing against other players who are playing at an expert level. Then think about how your game actually plays and adjust accordingly.

Alright here's a freebie just to give you a starting data point. Assume 100bb.
MP opens 3x, CO calls, if you're on the button something like this is ok:

Flat: 22-TT, red JJ, A5s, AQs, AJs, KJs, KTs, QTs, JTs, T9s, 54s, 65s
3 bet: QQ-AA, black JJ, AK, AQo, KQo, KQs, ATs, K9s, A4s

Remember this is just a baseline. If it's your typical 1/3 game like I think then reduce your 3 bet range by a lot and make it more linear. Meaning throw out K9s, A4s, KQo and add all JJ and TT and sometimes 99.

This.

Assuming deep stacks and loose players who will pay off with weak made hands, we'll want to flat a ton of speculative hands (and then bet multiple streets big for value when we hit, draw cheap when they let us, and fold post pretty much all else). Assuming shorter stacks and Vs who won't pay off more than one street with TPGK, but who are addicted to seeing flops, we'll want to play 3-bet or fold with a linear range. Assuming competent Vs against whom we have to balance, we'll want a polarized range. Etc. The first is more common in 1/3 than the second or the third, but it just hugely depends.

Thanks guys I appreciate it the general advice guidelines are helpful I believe I am good enough to know which hands fit under which category, but obviously always trying to improve I just wanted to brush up on what I found to be a leak in my game.