So my friend and I are having quite a heated debate about overbetting pots with maniac image ...

We'll give you this made up scenario:

Hero has been building "maniac image" all through the session, all other players have seen him play wild, overbetting pots then showing down air and in general showing down bluffs.

Live NL hold em £1/£2 blinds for arguments sake hero and villian are sitting with 100BB (£200):

Hero is in mid position with KsKd and raises 4x (£8)
Villian calls out of late position with a hand such as AJ suited, A10 suited, AQ (you get the jist of the kind of hand range for this scenario!)
(All others fold!)


Pot= £19
Flop comes dry: 8s, 5c, 2d
Hero is first to act and overbets pot to around the £35 - £40 mark!
Villian has missed flop and holds A high.


Friends Argument: His argument is that with his maniac image many players will attempt to make a move on him (shove all in, re raise etc) as he has been seen showing down many bluffs where he has overbetted the pot on the flop and now of course that he has a very strong hand someone may make a move on him with A high ... thinking hero could be up to his normal tricks. He argues with his big hands such as this he can get paid off from doing a fairly standard overbet that he usually does without the goods.
He claims if he was to switch up his play and suddenly only bet half pot, 3/4 pot etc other players would become suspicious and less likely to pay him off then if he just did his standard overbet to the pot.

My Argument: My argument is that despite his maniac image players will not want to pay near enough double the pot to see the turn knowing there going to have to pay a HUGE amount on the turn to see the river ... its just such bad -EV for anyone with only A high. Basically saying unless someone hits the flop they wont wanna take the gamble with you and shove on you with A high, they've only invested £8 why take the risk of there stack when even though hero is a maniac they could still easily hold better than villian and many will just wait for a better spot and will not want to shove on you due to the fact they only have A high you could of hit the board, you could hold a pair and as you are a maniac could call a re raise or shove with air (But holding two live cards) so be in a race when you only previously had risked £8 .....

I also argue that if a player has position on you pre flop and believes they are way ahead of your range pre flop they were probably just going to 3 bet pre and that they wouldnt just call your pre flop raise (with position) just to see a missed flop and then decided to float or shove or re raise!


Soooo that is pretty much it, would love to hear your opinions on this and explanations as to why you think one of us could be right ... We're both fairly new to poker (only just started getting into the advanced stuff) so would love to hear all your reasons as to why one us may be correct or incorrect!!

Thankyou

People with A high wouldnt call a normal bet otf from you anyways. I think you're using your overbet in the wrong scenario.

If you had KK and the flop came AK4.....yea, overbetting works here.

ya doesn't really matter... most opponents will be tightening their ranges and not play back but wait for the nuts and expect to get paid off.. Overbets are used primarily on the river as well unless the game is really deep... (3 barrels is usually all in on live anyways w/ 1/2+ PSB so overbetting on the flop/turn is excessive). Overbetting here is dumb because the only option for the villain is to shove and will only do that when slow playing sets probably. If you think the villains are going to spazz i guess they will spazz more often vs an overbet than a 1/2 PSB but I doubt that will happen enough that you should play like a maniac because every1 with a brain knows thats not the optimal way to play a maniac.

I play a lag style. Overbetting does work in certain scenarios, but very few people are going to shove a naked two over cards and hope for fold equity. At best you will get reraised by a strong underpair or tpgk. To be a successful lag you have to balance your overbetting range to include air and nuts. You have to be willing to overbet bet your quads as well as your air bluffs. You also have to be willing to call an all in with less than what is normal comfort level. Your friend is right about what happens when you overbet, overbet, overbet, and then bet small. I can bet $5 into a fifty dollar pot on the flop and watch everyone fold, mumbling about my set. lol
Most players will not "spaz" into you with anything less than tpgk. They let you do the betting for them unless their hand is vulnerable. So betting usually indicates tpgk or mptk. Over shoves for most villains are combo draws, although some will with tptk on wet boards. The best way to slow a lag down is to call him.

With a maniac image people will be looking to trap you, not play questionable hands.