Quote:
Originally Posted by jc315
Hey guys,
I have a question about playing weak aces - mostly thinking hands like A2 to A8 or so.
Obviously, I'm a beginner and play $1/3 or $1/2.
It seems fairly standard to be open raising most Ax hands when in early position.
The thing I don't understand well is that in these live LL games, I'm likely to get at least 2-4 callers here, and it is difficult to gauge where I am at - people can easily flat anything from A 6-A 10; possible even AJ/AQ/AK from what I see at these tables.
My main concern is that even if an ace comes on the flop.. isn't it likely/very possible that I am just behind?
Would just like to hear the theory behind all this and get a deeper understanding of what I should be trying to do/what my mind-set should be.
When you see this being done, isn't the ace usually suited?
If so, the reason may be because the famous poker author Ed Miller, came out with a book entitled "The Course" recommending opening any Ax suited UTG for a raise in a typical 1/2NL game. Pg. 59. He also recommends an o/r UTG with 76s+. The reason being that they are capable of making big hands that can win big, multi-way pots that often develop in these games. So, you're going to need more than 2 callers & I would be willing to bet he's thinking 4 callers minimum.
So, the current table dynamic is going to determine whether you need to tweak your opening range in EP as he stated in the book. IMO, you are definitely not playing to flop a pair of aces with A4s vs. 5+ opponents.
Also, As4s vs. Ac4h wins 52.5% of the time, a 5% edge. So if you have say 28% equity on the flop when you're not suited, then how much more equity do you have when you flop 1 card to your suit when you're suited? Well if you have As4s vs. KK [no spade] on a 7s5h2d board, you have 33.6% equity. If you have As4c, you have 30.3% equity. 3.3% more equity just because you have the chance of runner, runner flush. If you flop two spades, then your offsuit As4c has 33.7% equity & your As4s has 55.7% equity. That's 22% more equity & a 65% increase over the offsuit hand. So, suited is a helluva' lot more valuable than offsuit.
Say the flop is 7s5h8s & you hold As4s. Now you have a flush draw & bdsd vs. KK & you have 54.7% equity. If you only had one spade, you'd only have 32.3% equity.
If there was only 1 spade on the above flop, you'd have 32.3% equity and if your A4 was not suited, you'd have 28.9% equity. A drop of 4.4% in equity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc315
I feel similarly with lower/low-mid pocket pairs. I read the COTW for small pocket pairs, and most of the time I do feel like when I play my lower pocket pairs that I am just set mining.
Anyway, thank you for any help guys, appreciate it!
Miller also recommends that you o/r with any pocket pair in EP. However, that's not going to work when the table dynamic is such that you will often be 3! in LP to a price that doesn't give you the opportunity to make enough when you flop a set to warrant playing them.
I would prefer calling a $15 o/r in EP than may start a chain reaction, than be the opener. Say you have a player who has a tight o/r range UTG & he makes it $15 and you call with 55. You're doing it because you believe you'll get a few more callers with their 87s etc., & you'll be on your way to making 15x your preflop investment should you flop a set. That's provided the stacks are big enough.
Then there are posters on 2+2 who claim that they've played with Miller in games & they have never seen him play the range he recommends in his book "The Course." However, it was in Vegas & from what I understand, the 2/5NL games are not soft, multi-way games. Idk.
I can say that I know for a fact that Miller's opening ranges for EP was at one time much tighter than what he recommends in "The Course." I can also testify to the fact that those people willing to gamble in EP with 76s+ & A4s+ and are running good, win big. I've seen it time and again. However, when they don't run well at a table, they move, and sometimes they go home stuck 1.2k. Other times they win 2k+.
I also don't think they just play the opening range in Miller's book & go by a set of rules postflop as to how they play their hand. I think they're more advanced players who have a solid understanding of their opponent's ranges & tendencies. I'd also say that at least 1/2 of the ones I see playing like this in the 1/2NL games I'm at, normally play 2/5NL & are just waiting for a seat in a 2/5NL game.
The book is available on Amazon for $43.75. However, I am willing to bet any winning player would recommend that a beginner stick to a tight opening range in EP [as Miller recommended years ago] & concentrate on learning how to extract/maximize your profits in the later positions, i.e., Button, CO, HJ & Steal seats.
I have become acquainted with a high stakes limit Hold 'Em player in MD & I asked him why he prefers limit over NL when he does so freakin' well in limit. He says there are usually many more questions you need to ask yourself before acting in NL than limit. So in limit, he can play many more hours before he begins to burn out mentally.
If that's true, then it would make sense that a beginning NL player should learn how to play the game one piece at a time.
A tight, solid opening range [recommended by Miller] can be found here:
http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/a...standards.html
It was written in 2007 & is tight, but it will keep you out of trouble during the learning process because you won't be playing much in EP. Therefore, you will have position on your opponents the vast majority of the time.
Last edited by ZuneIt; 01-25-2016 at 01:57 AM.