2/5 Session Hero has $800. Playing shorthanded (5 or 6 [one guy was in and out eating his dinner]) and with all the weekend regs. Nightly tournament pulled all the fishy players out of the game for a few hours. Lots of folds pre and not tons of action. I just had a big QQ hand that 3 bet pre and took down on the flop. I am up this session, but I am the odd man out among these regs. Not saying I'm terrible, but since I'm new they are definitely waiting for me to make a mistake and waiting for the Asian guy to gamble.

Main Villian (has $2k+) - on the button. 30s black guy who is the epitome of a good LAG player. Can have any two, but really understands his range and what he is after and how he is perceived. Knows how to play big hands and doesn't get caught being value trapped.

V1 - Asian guy ($350). V2 ($500)- 30's WG. Plays tightish.

V1 limps UTG, V2 makes a standard raise to $25 in cutoff, Main V calls on button, Hero calls in BB with 88. This is already more action than the last 3 orbits.

Flop ($100) 378r
I check, V1 checks, V2 makes a cbet of $60, button calls, I call, and I think V1 might have even called.

Flopping the nuts is great and just calling here is dangerous. I know it's dangerous and I was willing to be greedy here and risk losing the hand. Constructive comments are appreciated.

Turn ($340) Qd - board is Qd3d78
This is a super safe card for me (barring V2 having some wacky QQ here) so I lead out $210 and get quite a few eyebrow raises.

V1,V2 fold. Button calls.
I'm ranging him on 910,69,56,78 (eh),73, 33,77, Q7, Q3. I'm not sure how low on the 'dumb' range he puts me, but I would never over value an overpair here. He might think I would which is why he could still be holding 2pair and not just drawing to the straights.

River ($750) Kd
Hero??

Do we hold the 8d? This is important because if we do, it lowers the combos of Adxd that V could hold that would get to this river.

Haven't looked at spoiler but SPR is less than 1 after turn bet so I don't think we can fold at this point. So the Q is if we are still ahead, what is the best way to maximize value (since if we are behind we are getting stacked no matter what). I like a lead of ~$250 so that we can maybe get lower sets and 2P to call (again, we are calling any shove).

I took the spoiler out, as hero's last action is still a form of results.

Pre is obviously fine.

OTF, especially if I read that right you are Asian and might be seen as gambly, I might make a smallish donk bet. This could be read as a weak hand trying to take it down or a SD trying to set a price and might induce a raise.

AP, I like the turn donk and the sizing.

AP to river, you are unlikely to get called by worse (except maybe some KT/KQ hands) if you bet, and might induce a LAG to try to rep the flush. Of course if he backed into the flush it's all going in too, but at least a check will keep his range wider. If he checks back with moderate SDV, oh well. He prob wasn't calling a decent bet with it anyway, imo.

Against an average player, I'm betting here for value.

Call pre is good. I actually like leading on this flop, it's not super scary and you can have straight draws and a lot of 8x combos, in addition to 99/JJ and sets obviously. So you're likely to get calls from overpairs, overcards, and straight draws while also taking the lead in the hand. I can get behind a call on the flop though, IMO a lead >> call > check raise.

As played I like your lead on the turn and the sizing. I hope you bet using big chips.

I think you're giving V too much credit for combos of straight draws on the turn than he actually has, especially with your self-described image I doubt he's calling with 69 or 56 when you've put in more than 30% of your stack. In my experience he shows up here with a lot more Qx and two pair hands here, as well as some pair+flush draws.

On the river I would bet for value, if he's the type of player to talk himself into a call I would jam (and pray he doesn't snap call), and if you think he can fold two pair to an all-in then I would bet around 285.

Check and expect to get shoved on and call quickly.

I condemn the turn lead. Besides being laughably face up, you eliminate all kinds of money making outcomes, like when Main V pounces when checked to, or when V2 bets again (and get called or raised by Main), and so on. I'd fold my OPs and FDs if I were any of these Vs which is horrible for you because you're just never bluffing this spot/this line. Maybe 2-5 regs are foolish enough to continue against this sizing where you're from, but for the most part you're incinerating value leading turn. It's a viable play in mouth-breathing 1-2, but not against anyone with a pulse.

Against described villain, you need to be checking here. Given your lead out on the turn, villain is not going to call with worse, but is much more likely to bluff on the river given the backdoor flush draw that just came in.

+1000 amana knows his ****

I like a check on the river to let him fire with his busted draws and 2P's; i don't think you get called by a worse hand besides 2P, however i think he will bet his 2P's OTR so by checking you also allow him to bluff into you

when he does have diamonds this will protect you from getting raised on the river so you won't have to b/f

the K completes the BDFD but it is very disconnected relative to the rest of the board, a bunch of stuff misses here on the river

On my phone so can’t really get into the good discussion but I’m not Asian, lol. Baby faced white guy in his 30’s. Always perceived as quiet and tight.

This. Turn lead for heaps is awful.

For some reason I like a c/r otf... we could easily do this with T9 and 56 as well to balance and it might look more like a bluff than leading turn. Maybe I’m wrong here...


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What’s the better line here then? I feel like I’d get equally torched for checking into 3 players and have it check through. Maybe I’m missing something but check raising the flop feels more face up than calling and betting. I honestly love to hear what other players (good or bad) think about in these scenarios because I know I think differently.

Would you be more likely to be bluffing if you c/r flop, or c/c flop and lead turn?


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I like this. There's plenty of hands that will call which are almost drawing dead against your set. (overcards, overpairs, Ax combos that have hit a pair, ...).
Check-call turn, Check-call river. With LAGs in the mix you can almost be assured that someone will try some kind of play. Let'em hang themselves (or even better: let them try to outplay each other when they think you've already given up)

Alternatively I might check-raise turn to price anyone out of their draws.

Ckc flop ck turn period. If turn checks through what hands are calling $210 at any reliable frequency anyway. You also still have the river to play and just have to accept getting value oop is difficult, but that also isn’t a license to play horribly.
Think about your whole range in this game/this spot, don’t just play the nuts like the nuts and everything else as a check.
I obv don’t know you, but if you’re honest w yourself then you’re just never leading turn with anything but a set.

I would check raise flop especially once there is a caller. I expect the tight guy to call with his overpairs and maybe a straight draw from the button calls behind too.

I don't hate check call flop I wouldn't do it but I think on drier boards there is merit to check calling sets because you don't have a huge check raise bluff range. However if you play it this way I think you need to continue the story that you are weak with a check on the turn. As soon as you lead out into 4 players on the turn this looks very strong. This is evidenced by the eyebrow raises you got from other players and comments from previous posters.

If I checked the flop I'm checking turn going for check raise probably all in given the stack sizes.

Finally as mentioned AP on the river check call

You're right that a turn lead puts our hand face up, but we need to build the pot. So it actually makes even more sense to lead OOP on the flop when our range is wider and take control of the action from the start. In position a call on the flop makes sense.

Based on game description this turn is getting checked through a lot

If you’re going to donk the turn, just c/r the flop

But your betting range is not wide, you have a monster on 873r always leading flop into 3 people. Always.

But it's 873r. Does everyone not know how transparent these lines are?

Is the internal narrative really "wow top set, check and, wait for it, wait for it, Boom, I raise suckas, boom! take that you fish! whatcha gonna do now?" or "wow top set, hmmm, call, yea got em', uh oh a flush draw. I better bet now because wow top set, got em!, I'm so good at poker, wow he called! what a clown. This is easy"

This is incredibly good advice and I absolutely don’t play my ranges better. I’m naturally conservative and really like the matra small hands small pots. Check rising 8x on the flop makes sense, but then I’m lost in the weeds of I get a caller.

Feel free to always make detailed comments. It takes a while to push through ‘lol, you suck’ posts to get down into peoples thought process and how to get better so I hope others take notes.

Okay so let's flip this around. Suppose someone posts a hand on this forum where they raise with AA 6-handed and get a couple of calls, and a player leads the flop from the blinds on a 873r board.

I would bet a lot of money that the vast majority of people would say call, some would say raise, and anyone who says fold would get flamed.

But your real range is not what matters. Your perceived range matters. So the question is, do these Vs think you would (or would they) lead if you binked a Q OTT?

Like a 3bet pre, especially only 6 handed and so much dead money at a tough table. Not loving flatting in the bb with a very solid LAG OTB with a hand that flops poorly. I'd call at a fishy table where we can get paid off.

Turn donk is awful. We don't have an image that suggests we are ever bluffing here..donking large multiway?? Suddenly we have enough guts to make this play with an oesd or fd? We allow BTN to make exploitative folds with big hands like 2p

AP, I would check river or bet really small hoping to induce.

Why would we 3 bet a hand that doesn’t block any hands that can continue against our 3 bet? Sounds like you want to 3 bet as a bluff to which I can think of so many other hands I’d rather 3 bet as a bluff with than 88. 88 also plays great multiway as well as it’s more likely we get paid off when we do flop a set.

I really think our best chance of getting paid is either C/r flop, or c/cing all the way down to let the lag hang himself. I’d prefer the first option, as it allows us to have a few bluff combos as well which we do want with our nitty image.


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