Can I play this hand worse than this?

Tha game is NL1000 and I've been playing for two orbits. Last orbit I won a hand against Villain betting a nut flush on the river. He called and mucked saying he had a smaller flush. He has been very active

In this hand I'm in HJ. There are four limpers and I raise to 85 with KK. In BB Villain 3Bets to 285. This is the first 3Bet since I'm playing. I've like 1.800$ and I cover him. I call.

I call hoping to re-raise almost all flops to his CB. Flop is A-Q-8r. He checks and I check behind (¡¡¡¡¿¿??). River is 9 and he bets 350$. Now?

You can insult my play on all streets

WP.

His 3bet range has you crushed on the flop.

fold. everything that you did beat before (QQ, AK) now has you beat . Also a good chance he has AA and checked the flop to induce.

Venice, Redsaddict:

Would you like a 4-Bet preflop? 4-Bet-Call? What do you think?

Hi Sir,

I'm not sure where you play 1000NL, but where I play, the games are so loose that with four limpers, I'd prefer to 2-bet to $100. I would increase the raise by 2-BB for value.

You said:

This doesn't tell us effective stacks, which is the first thing to consider. I'm going to assume that you mean $1800 is effective stacks.

But okay, you selected $80, and you said:

Question: How long have you been playing?

I will assume you have been playing for a short enough time that you can't safely say villain has {AA}.

Being that you are 180-BB deep (and playing against an unknown -- you haven't given much HH here), I think the best play is to call the 3-bet. You will have position post-flop, and stacking off 180BB in live games PF with KK, is spew IMHO. While these games are "loose", they are loose-passive. I do not recall the last time I saw a 400-BB pot at my $5-10 game shipped AI PF.

Just calling also keeps villain's range wider/weaker than if we 4-bet. We keep him in the hand with his bluffing range, and with the trash part of his 3-bet range, if he has trash in that range.

I think your check OTF is mandatory. Why turn your hand into a bluff? A standard 5% 3-bet range for your villain is:

{JJ+, AK}.

You can only beat one hand in this range. Combo-wise you are ahead of only six hands, but you lose to 12 hands. You are ahead of only 50% of this range. But you have showdown value -- no need to turn your hand into a bluff OTF. Hard to imagine JJ calling a flop bet.

Now, OTT, villain leads. Villain's line is consistent with the hands that beat you. {AA, QQ} will take this line. {AK} will also take this line, given the rainbow flop. If {AQs} is in villain's range, his line, again, is consistent with a hand that beats you.

For this reason, in a vacuum, folding OTT is OK.

However, you said villain was "active". That could make the turn a call. But for that, I would like a few HHs from the villain.

Why do you think villain is "active"? Do you mean active PF, or post flop as well?

How about a few showdowns you've seem villain arrive at?

If you had to, how would you say villain perceives you?

A 4bet live without lots of history is AA or KK. You have KK. He's folding everything you're ahead of and calling/shoving AA only. I like the call. Actually, I like the call with AA too.

Incomplete and inaccurate:
* So is this 5/10? NLxxx seems so vague considering many rooms have varying min/max buyins.
* Preflop action is muddled. I read it as: 4 limpers to you in HJ w/KK. You raise to 85, folds around to BB who jacks it to 285. Folds back to you (is this right?). You call (assumed). Since you cover him, his stack size is critical here.
* Flop: How much is in the pot? if my ASSumptions above are correct, theres (285x2)+(4x10)=610
* River: Wait a minute, where's the turn?

Don't mean to be too negative, but important details are missing or ambigous.

Edit: Never mind all that, Reds wins the thread on post #3

Sorry :P. Villain must have ~1.500 before all the action.

BTW I play in Argentina.

I re-read my post and I realized it's a mess. Sorry.

The game is NL1000 pesos. Min buy-in 500 and Max 2.000.

Effective stacks are 1.500.

Preflop: The four limpers folded back to me. I called the 285.

Flop: 610 is the pot.

The 9 is the turn, of course. Not river. Muy bad.

Thanks!

As played seems fine; it just sucks. I would consider a 4-bet if I had more of the right history with villain.

Bueno suerte. Lo quiero San Carlos de Barriloche y Vizquel.

nice hand.

I wouldnt not have raised a low card flop, in fact it would really get sticky if villain started betting hard on each street.

With AA i would 4 bet to maybe 200. Live villains will never ever fold for this price, might spew with AK or worse pairs and villains are more hesitant to fire big air cbets when the pot is so bloated.

With AA vs a good thinking villain i would flat.

Good hand. Like the flat IP pre, and definitely don't bet flop unless you're turning your hand into a bluff. He doesn't bet the turn with JJ IMO. Fold turn, NH.

MISREAD WHO 3BET. I would 4 bet small anyhow.