I was in AC Sat. and ran into 3 players that would limp pre-flop no matter what they have, including pocket queens (didn't see them with kings or aces). What's the best way to play these people when there's a good chance you're taking yourself to valuetown?

Tighten your value range and draw for the nuts. Build pots with big draws and small bets, bets that aren't meant to have any fold equity, so you can make big shoves on the river and get paid off.

Plus if these guys are really passive with stronger range, then you can simply avoid them altogether.

pot control
don't value bet as thinly
avoid multi street bluffs

You need to attack extreme passive players. Limping along with them leaves them in thier comfort zone. In limp pots they can chase for cheap. If you apply pressure preflop, on the flop they have to make a decision for thier stack. It still comes down to reads, find out what their calling range is postflop. Its a big key to success.

Good to know how my solid (lol) passive play can make good players play MY game instead of theirs.

No no no do not follow this advice, I like my comfort zone!

I wasn't trying to bluff (they would fold, btw, if they didn't have a big hand) but it's more likely that you have let's say AJs in position on a J-high board, bet 3 streets trying to get max value and then end up losing to QQ. You can't just bet small with nut draws and then hope they have a big hand and call an overbet on the river when you hit nuts. So it seems now I'm stuck between missing tons of value and dictating my own large value losses.

My biggest losses of the day were this QQ vs AJ hand and another QQ vs JJ hand (2 separate players) where I thought I was ahead on all streets until I saw their cards on the river (especially in the QQ vs JJ hand where the guy called UTG in a 1/3 game and then called the button's $25 raise pre-flop).

Then bluff more often with polarized hand.

I would agree with this if heads up but typically you are in a multi-way pot that might get that guy to fold if he doesn't have anything but who knows about the other 3 guys and betting air becomes spewy very quickly.

To beat people who only play stong hands and limp with them:

1) Don't bluff on the flop or turn
2) Don't semi-bluff
3) Limp behind them with speculative hands (small raise if necessary to keep POS)
4) Value bet 1 street later than you ordinarily would. (TPGK? Check behind and make a big bet turn or river)
5) Don't play hands against them out of position, and fold to almost any bet they make.

Note that while you don't get a lot of value, you almost never lose money to them. Once they decide that you aren't a 'crazy internet kid', you should adjust your play.

I don't like this advice against tight/passive players. They will stack you off the first time they hit. This is specifically the sort of play they are trying to take advantage of.

Adjust your range base on position and action...

You're refuting general response to a general question with specific scenario exception...

What exactly are you looking with this thread? Everything in poker is adaptive...

Op getting 3 streets of value with a jack top kicker is not smart. If you get called on the flop and turn with a pair, if your opponents are not on a draw your in trouble. Hand reading and board texture should be your focus. Your confidence postflop needs to improove.

You're kidding right?

This particular hand is obviously an oddity, in most cases, it's easy three streets of value against majority of unknown.

@poke4fun going for 3 streets of value blindly is not smart poker. Always looking for value is a good way to get snapped off, especially with a pair. Its very important to put your opponent on a range. Thats why calling ranges postflop are vitale to success. If you know a guy only calls with over pairs, sets and combo draws. Are you still betting 3 streets of value with a jack. Not smart if you ask me.

You're telling me that KJ or QJ would fold on a J-high board?

LOL, post again after you actually learned this game.

Obviously we didn't know that, and obviously we wouldn't bet TP if we knew the villain is never calling with worse.

This sounds like good strategy.
I completely disagree with this. Typically, unless some draw got there on the river, if you're in position and you're not getting 3 streets with TPTK when you haven't been raised, you are missing on a lot of value.

@Poke4Fun Love how you broke down my post very nice of you. Yes we are always looking for value. But looking for that value from jacks with weaker kickers is not smart poker. It rarely happens, especially with jacks. Claiming i dont know poker because i said "always looking for value is a good way to get snapped off", is terrible thinking on your part. We are talking about passive players here. Passive players never raise, their calling ranges consist of hands aggro players would raise for value. Lol,lol how can you say you wouldnt bet tp if you knew villain will never call with worse. How do you define passive players ranges without betting? Ill answer that question for you, you cant. Your comments are confusing and contradicting. Stooping down saying i dont know how to play poker instead of a good discussion is not cool. I was advising op to hand read postflop. Its vitale to one's success in no limit holdem.

@Asg82 The main point im trying to make is that passive players dont raise, Its a known fact. Thats why op is having trouble. He is showing down jack with top kicker and better pairs are showing up. Thats why hand reading postflop vs passive players is a big point in beating them. They will call down with 98% of thier range. So you saying betting, betting and betting is the optimal play is false on your part.

The knowledge of said villain is an "extreme passive" player is an afterthought, not knowledge before the hand.

I also said specifically that you're losing value against "majority of unknown," when you're checking behind with TPTK, because you're afraid that villain is checking with two pairs or better on 3 streets?!

Either learn to follow a discussion, or just read.

If will call down with 98% of their range, betting betting and betting is optimal play, no? How can you hand read if they are just calling whether they have an overpair or a pair in between top and midpair? If I don't bet for value with TPTK, I'm not losing as much against Qs but I'm also not getting value out of the other jacks in their range (some even will call down with tens).

@Poke4Fun when i play there is no such thing as unknown, the reason being is I pay attention and rely on reads. I dont see why you bring up unknowns anyway, we are having a discussion on passive players not unknowns. I didnt advocate checking or say anything about lines. Board texture and reads on villains in the hand is how I create my lines. @ASg82 The way you define their range is to take the lead pre and on the flop. Future streets and changing of board texture should determine how you play the hand.

I'd like to point out that "value betting one street later than you ordinarily would" is a fine strategy. A check on the turn can induce a call on the river from a passive V who ordinarily would have folded anything worse than TPTK to a second or third bet. No lost value against many V's, not just passive, fold or fit V's. Some guys will even call the river with middle pair if the turn is checked. (Not smart guys.)

It also reduces a good deal of the damage when a passive V hits two pair or sluffs queens (and of course Aces.) One should not that betting for value later means betting 2, not 3, streets for value.

However, against fish and calling stations you should bet all three streets for value. They will call you with less than TPTK, and you want to get their $ before the other guys do.

Bluffing the flop and giving up is a decent tack against tight, passive, fold or fit types. If they missed, they fold right away. If they call, you know they have something, probably top pair or better. Its not worthwhile to bluff them when they show such strength. If they are super passive, you may just get to see the rest of the hand for free, even out of position.

When drawing in position, you should always make 1/2 pot bets on the flop to buy free cards. Worthwhile and fun!

This would be easier if Op could define the vils pre-flop limping ranges a little narrower than "they would limp with everything including queens". If you know that your bets are only getting raised by the nuts it should be a easy game.
Narrow your ep value range, widen your lp value range. Flop bet a polarized range of top value hands and airballs. Check back hands with mediocre showdown value. Understand what range you are against when they call 2 streets and adjust your river value betting accordingly. You are essentialy picking up the flops they miss, valuetowning your big hands and not value owning your self when you have mediocre showdown value. Don't semi bluff because you have little FE and they will pay off when you hit after a free card. Stack chips. gl