This situation has been coming up fairly often over my past few sessions and I think it is a major leak and costing me a ton of money long term. Tightening from the blinds has had 2 effects on my game, one positive and one negative. I have stopped defending w sc, stopped set mining w shallow stacks etc which is positive.
The hands that have been kicking my ass lately are picking up legitimate hands (think AQs, ak, 10s) and never ever reraising these hands bc I see so often on here position is more important.
Example 1-3 nl
Hero bb with 100 bb. 1st hand at the table no reads
younger villain in early pos r to 13, 3 or 4 calls and I look at AQs. Lately I've been content just calling with these hands without even thinking about reraising them. My initial instincts are to make it 55 but I have become so weak out of the blinds and I end up with an A888A board losing 1/2 my stack before I've even settled in.
How do u guys combat the feeling that you are playing too weak? Are there certain players who are just way better off buying in for 50 bbs instead of 100? I have a limited amount of deep stack experience, and feel like buying in full causes me to play generally weaker.

Yes there are certain players who are better off buying in for 50bb's. Personally I would recommend putting in a lot of time and effort into learning to play better with a full stack. Although generally people who play weaker when they buy in full often have a short bankroll and suffer from "scared money" syndrome. Given the action you described above flatting with AQs is not exactly a leak. Readless against a live 1/3 player who opens to $13 from EP, 3betting AQs might actually turn out to be the leak should you adjust that way.

I completely disagree. I don't think 3 betting can ever be that bad here. I'm going to make a huge effort to stop playing so weak in general and I feel that the blinds are where I probably play the weakest. I just hate calling with AQ and having no idea what any of the 4 hands are that I'm up against.

3bet instantly to 55-60 unless you have a read telling you he has qq+ ak

scared money is dead money. if you arent sufficiently rolled the get out

So you prefer to 3bet when you have no clue about your opponent or his potential holdings as opposed to flatting? Very interesting. Are you 3betting for value or as a bluff?

Dirty313 this is my first hand so I'm completely readless. Villain was young and had a stack of roughly 550. I'm 3betting AQs for value and bc it's my first hand at the table they are readless about me as well. Just because I'd fold to a 4 bet doesn't necessarily mean I'm bluffing right?

I used to play with a guy who would always yell that wicked loud so that the entire poker room could hear him.


OP, generally "just calling" with Ax OOP is not really going to work out that well. I would 3bet or fold AQ there... if opener is some really tight nit then I just muck. Otherwise its a snap 3bet squeeze.

I would advise keeping your raising range a bit tighter out of the blinds, but you can and SHOULD still raise/3bet your strong hands. AQ+/QQ+ will always warrant a raise/3bet and depending on the opener and number of callers you can either 3bet or call with 99-JJ. AJo I would either 3bet or fold and almost never calling with it OOP. AJs, maybe a bit more likely to call if there is multiway action, once again depends on opener.

For value? That would imply villain is calling with worse. This does not seem to be a good assumption imo given that we are still readless. And villain is likely NEVER folding better. So this would be a piss poor bluff attempt and I would love to hear where the "value" comes from with our 3bet. So essentially our preflop squeeze will eliminate all hands that we crush and keep in all hands that we are crushed by. 3betting a hand based on its absolute strength is not always optimal.

I've raised a button open to 75 after button made it 20 and was called by AJ off. There are tons of villains who are calling this 3b with 99, 1010, AJ and even some suited connectors. Not all villains play well that well. I'm c betting every flop and 99-jj will have a hard time continuing with an over even if I miss the flop.

These spots in the blinds with hands like AQs and 10s are tricky, especially when you're around 100BB. Once you 3bet from OOP, it's harder to get away from the hand, when, on most occasions, you'll be c-betting the flop. Assuming you 3-bet around 15bb, then you'll be c-betting around 20bb, and, suddenly, you've just committed over 35% of your stack with a hand that could be dominated by AK or JJ. Hence the anxiety and the desire to be a nit and just flat call preflop.

But you know this is not always the optimal play. I would recommend taking a more flexible approach to these hands, one that forces you to analyse exactly what you're up against. By and large, this involves reading your opponents and ranging them at every opportunity.

Imagine large HUDs sitting above each player at your table that no-one else but you can see. So, for example, when a twenty-something guy opens the C/O for the third time in four orbits (and you're yet to see a showdown from this Villain), and the B/N and S/B call, and you look at AQs, then you should be 3betting for value.

On the other hand, when a fifty-something fellow, who hasn't raised in the last hour, opens from UTG+1 and there's only one caller from the B/N, and you look at 10s in the B/B, then 3betting is not the play. Instead, you can only set-mine, if implied odds allow, or just fold

The more you range players the easier it will become to make clear decisions with these semi-premium hands. This means observing, among other things, how often Villains:

• raise and from what position;
• 3bet and from what position;
• c-bet and barrel;
• reach showdown.

Once you combine these player tendencies with some live tells, then the easier it will become to make clear decisions with your semi-premium hands from OOP. In the end, it's not a matter of being weak or strong, but aware and smart

This.

Fwiw, I need a good reason not to 3bet AQ, not a reason to 3bet it.
Especially from the blinds.
(You're example is different given you had no reads and the original raiser was in EP. Still, I'd rather 3bet/ fold or fold outright here.)

I'm not going to go against the maxim that Position Is Important- it is. But relative position is an important weighting in the consideration- you can't be afraid of taking the lead with strong hands just because you're "OOP". Being able to play well (even if not as well as from the Button) from EP is an important part of your skillset.

I mean, in your example, say you 3bet to 55 and get one call. You can immediately make some deductions about V's holding. There's no mandatory requirement to Cbet every flop, so make your decisions about your next move depending on the texture of the flop. One of the biggest differences about playing OOP is that you might only be able to make definitive decisions about the hand on the Turn, instead of the Flop (as if you can always do that...).

lol waay different than 3betting an EP raiser with no reads. And assuming a 1/3 villain is folding an OP to the board just because we cbet is definitely off. Lets keep the scenario constant when discussing strategy. This is hand #1 at a new table 100bb's deep. We have an EP open to $13 followed by 3 callers and we wake up with AQs in the bb. What is the best play and why?

I agree AQs is LIKELY the best hand at the moment but once we 3bet and get called what is villains range? How well does our hand do against villains range? Is villain capable of folding JJ on a 9 high board when we cbet? Does villain 4bet KK+ or flat? IMO calling allows us to keep in all weaker FD's, weaker Ax hands and Qx hands that villain may fold preflop once we 3bet. This scenario should not really come up too often because generally you should not be readless after 2-3 orbits or so.

FWIW, I think position is king at tables that aren't full of weak passive straightforward players; as soon as you get a couple of loose / aggro / bluffy / floaty players at a table, being OOP just sucks so bad. So at these tables, I play extremely passively preflop out of the blinds with big non-pair hands, unless I think there's a very good chance I can take down the pot preflop.

I'd also always buy in for 100 BBs, with one of the reasons being that it will be very difficult to play speculative hands to a typical 7x+ raise size preflop with only 50 BBs (i.e. we simply won't have the implied odds to play hardly any hands at all to a preflop raise).

GcluelessNLnoobG

By over I meant when an over card hits the flop not them folding an overpair. Yes that situation is different but still he called 75 with AJ. I see it all the time here that these guys won't call u with worse. Really 3b AQs is now considered a bluff? 13 isn't exactly a strong open at 1/3 anyways.

I think AK, QQ+ is always a 3bet. The rest depends on your opponents ranges. We are only ever 3betting AQ for value. What are you going to bluff? But if V opens to 13, theres 4 callers and you only have 200. Pot is already 65 without your bet, a 3bet to 65 makes perfect sense. If you get 5 callers, you have a huge pot with the best hand. If you get shoved on you re-evaluate, but given how tight you're going to do this, you're probably happy to get shoved on a lot because theres only a few hands (AQ JJ TT) that you will think twice about.

Playing out of position is a fact of poker. The fact that you have initiative shouldn't mean you have to c-bet. Most of your opponents wont bet unless they outflop you, and the ones that do 70% of the time you should just check your big hands to as well.

You do realize that these are 2 totally different villains and scenarios right? "Well it worked before on a totally different villain!" is not an approach that I will condone. And 3betting AQs could certainly be a bluff depending on villains ranges and his tendencies. If villain's range is AK, KK+ then yes...your 3bet would be a bluff, although not a very good one. The point I am trying to get across is that 3betting is an exploitative play that should be used to exploit an opponent barring some sort of read. You could be losing value by 3betting, or you could be valuetowning yourself. My point is that you have no idea.

For some reason you keep responding to my posts alone rather than the others who have mostly all disagreed with you. Saying that no villain will call with worse is flat out wrong.

Well you are the OP correct? I am merely offering my perspective and opinion on this situation for you since you are the one seeking the advice. I realize that most players are saying 3bet is best but they have yet to show me some solid proof. The best play is not an opinion after all. How about this...what do you suspect villains calling range will be once you 3bet to $65 or whatever size you prefer?

I just stoved a range of TT+ AJo+ AJs+ and we have about 45% equity against that range. So technically we are still behind villains 3bet calling range yet we decided to 3bet and get more money in the pot preflop. Now granted there is still some implied value to consider postflop that could potentially be there, for example cbetting some flops and getting folds from AJ+ and some underpairs but we also need to consider the danger of getting 4bet off of our hand and losing our preflop investment in a spot that had some super juicy postflop potential if we would have just flatted. Plus the times that we bet and villain flats with JJ on a T high board we lose a lot of money with little hope of improvement. As well as valuetowning ourselves against KK+ should villain decide not to 4bet. Not to mention the fact that all of this is nothing more than imaginary ranges and tendencies we gave to an unknown villain that could be way off.

P.S. Please don't take my posts as argumentative I am merely trying to have a productive discussion.

I think you either have a really flawed understanding of ranges and/or play in some really passive games.

By your logic, by 3betting AK we are bluffing because "we opponent can has JJ-AA". Or even, "by 3betting QQ we are bluffing against KK+"

We are playing a game where our goal is to make decisions and have a strategy that will result in winning the most money. I find that having an active 3betting range against live players is very profitable.

Neither always or never 3betting AQ or TT (or AK for that matter) is a strategy that is going to maximize your winnings.

If a tight player is rising UTG with a range that is JJ+, I am not 3betting him. If a loose player will raise/call with Q9o I am 3betting nearly always. There are a lot of games where players are passive enough that their open raising range is very tight (even if they are normally very loose) and 3betting with AQ is spew.

I am not sure I understand your interpretation of my line of thinking...care to elaborate?

Tighter than his UTG raising range.
I would like to have this information before I get into a (multiway) pot with AQ.
Also, given part of his range folds to the 3bet (rightly or wrongly), and I like making money, the 3bet is going to be my default here.

i have to agree with jeff76 here. i've been flatting AK in SB/BB to a pfr and if i miss, so be it... then again im folding to a UTG raise and 2 callers with AJo in LP. NIT!

however i do not have any problem 3b AK in LP

I wouldn't call this nitty, I would say this is fairly straightfoward ABC; AJo plays horribly in a multiway raised pot, it's a super easy muck preflop, IMO.