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Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Playing bad turn and rivers OOP

01-15-2023 , 04:32 PM
A big part I’m sure I am making a mistake with is playing when I have a strong hand OOP and facing a bad turn or river card.

For example A56shh (10bb) lets say 200bb effective

If we have A5,A6,56,55,66,AA.

We check. Opponent bets 5bb we raise to 20bb opponent calls.

A56shh pot will be (50bb) effective 150bb

How to we play on turns for example any heart ?

Or 4h,7h which brings in many draws.

This spot I seem to get pushed off a lot of hands and not sure how to continue.

This is just and example to try and explain my point any advice would be great
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-15-2023 , 04:39 PM
One thing you can do is bet the flop instead of check-raise. When you’re so deep that a check-raise still leaves enough money behind to put you in a bad spot, you could start bet/3betting strong hands instead of check-raising.
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-15-2023 , 07:27 PM
I think you can bet 20-30bbs on the turn with almost your whole range vs 90% of turns. If you are 90% sure they are on a flush draw then obviously check
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-16-2023 , 01:22 AM
This is always an awkward situation and it's something that a book could be written on. There are just too many variables for having a fixed strategy to be good.
That said, when you play the flop this aggressively you are representing a big hand or a big draw. You should lead the turn a good portion of the time. Size the bet so it applies some pressure but looks like you hit the flush and want opponent to come along. Something 25BB-30BB in the example hand.
However, knowing your opponent is more important. How often is he chasing the draw when he calls the flop raise? Depending on what sort of hands villain plays you can have a good idea. How will he play the turn? With some passive opponents you can be sure they have the flush if they bet so checking and seeing what they do is a better play. Others are very aggressive and will habitually bet just because you didn't on a scary turn. With those opponents when you check you generally need to call with the good hands.
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-16-2023 , 02:27 AM
What positions? Changes things drastically.

In the exact example you gave you shouldnt be checkraising too often even with the hands you stated 200bb deep, and turn is a check readless.

You should be slowplaying a ton here readless, one of the absolute highest slowplay spots on flop and turn.

It's a tough run out, so they do get to apply a good amount of pressure in position, the way you punish this is by having good slowplays not trying to make it unawkward with your now middling hands since you simply can not.

Even after checking turn and facing a bet you should once again still be slowplaying a fair amount.

Some boards are just bad for your range/most of your exact hands in it and you attempt to protect yourself unless you can just abuse someone who plays very poorly.

This is without talking about exploits at all, when you factor in exploits you can do a fair amount of creative things.

Last edited by Eskaborr; 01-16-2023 at 02:33 AM.
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-17-2023 , 01:02 AM
You have to look hard at ranges. Just because a draw comes in, it doesn't mean your opponent can/should have it. And even when they can/should it doesn't mean it's the bulk of their range.

How you get oop is critical to deciding this. Are you heads up defending in the BB against an open raise? Where did that open come from?

Did we open and someone behind us call? Both those create us out of position but are VERY different situations.

In your example, when we have the 56 or sets, villains continuing range is more weighted towards Ax than flush draws so we should be less afraid of the flush. When we hold an A (or even 2) villain is likely to be continuing with more draws. If we hold the Ah however, all his Axs goes out the window and he has very few flushes left to continue. The blockers to draws can make a big difference.

So the answer (like everything in this game) is it depends. But before you worry about monsters under the bed, ask if monsters make sense and how much of villains range they actually make up.
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-19-2023 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
One thing you can do is bet the flop instead of check-raise. When you’re so deep that a check-raise still leaves enough money behind to put you in a bad spot, you could start bet/3betting strong hands instead of check-raising.
Yeah I think that is something I should start doing too
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-19-2023 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
This is always an awkward situation and it's something that a book could be written on. There are just too many variables for having a fixed strategy to be good.
That said, when you play the flop this aggressively you are representing a big hand or a big draw. You should lead the turn a good portion of the time. Size the bet so it applies some pressure but looks like you hit the flush and want opponent to come along. Something 25BB-30BB in the example hand.
However, knowing your opponent is more important. How often is he chasing the draw when he calls the flop raise? Depending on what sort of hands villain plays you can have a good idea. How will he play the turn? With some passive opponents you can be sure they have the flush if they bet so checking and seeing what they do is a better play. Others are very aggressive and will habitually bet just because you didn't on a scary turn. With those opponents when you check you generally need to call with the good hands.
yeah that's some good points thank you
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote
01-19-2023 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amadison04
You have to look hard at ranges. Just because a draw comes in, it doesn't mean your opponent can/should have it. And even when they can/should it doesn't mean it's the bulk of their range.

How you get oop is critical to deciding this. Are you heads up defending in the BB against an open raise? Where did that open come from?

Did we open and someone behind us call? Both those create us out of position but are VERY different situations.

In your example, when we have the 56 or sets, villains continuing range is more weighted towards Ax than flush draws so we should be less afraid of the flush. When we hold an A (or even 2) villain is likely to be continuing with more draws. If we hold the Ah however, all his Axs goes out the window and he has very few flushes left to continue. The blockers to draws can make a big difference.

So the answer (like everything in this game) is it depends. But before you worry about monsters under the bed, ask if monsters make sense and how much of villains range they actually make up.
thank you ill keep this in mind
Playing bad turn and rivers OOP Quote

      
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