This scenario comes up for me all the time, and I am interested in everyone's thoughts on it.

We're in a typical LP lowstakes NL game, several players make it to the flop, we have some kind of drawing hand, and it gets checked around.

The turn comes, no one looks particularly interested, and we pick up some kind of draw, maybe something between a gutshot and a flush draw. We have undercards to the board, so if someone slow played top pair, we're definitely behind, and our only outs are our pure "made hand" outs.

(Assume 100bb stacks. Obviously player tendencies matter, but for the sake of this discussion, assume we only know that the table is LP, and we have no specific reads)

Example one:
We hold 7c9c in the CO
5 players in a limped pot, 10bb in the middle. Board comes T42.
Checked around.
Turn comes with an 8. Checked to us, one player behind left to act OTB.
Bet? How much?

Example two:
6 players in a limped pot, 12bb in the middle. We have 4h3h in the BB.
Flop comes A7Q with one heart. Checked around.
Turn comes 9h. SB checks.
Bet? How much?

Example three:
5 players in a limped pot, 10bb in the middle. We have T9o OTB.
Flop comes 247r, checked around.
Turn comes J, checked around to us.
Bet? How much?

I am inclined to PSB here in all of these cases as a semibluff. My reasoning is, I will have a lot of FE against anyone who wasn't slowplaying, and will fold better draws often. If I am called, and hit my draw, it will be somewhat disguised, thus making my chance of a decent payoff OTR pretty good. If I get called, but still read my opponent as weak, I can fire another bullet OTR, hit or miss.

Discuss!

1 & 3 are good opportunities to bluff because of our position and the boards are dry....if an aggressive player bets in front of us (he's probably thinking the same thing) it's a good spot to bluff-raise as well.

2 is a bad opportunity because of our position and the 9 on the turn is an action card.

I would definetly bet in example 3 because nobody has a jack and if i get called by one person i am betting just about any river. If you are going to bet example 1 then i think you have to fire alot of rivers too because you are likely to get looked up by small pairs so i would fire J,Q,K,A rivers(obviously villan dependent). I am not betting in example 2

agree with mushtart.

also agree with OP that when betting in situations 1,3 a PSB is best.

I like betting the turn in scenarios like #2. We have no showdown value, so betting is good because it will often take the pot down. I also prefer making this play from EP, because it's easier to represent a slow played big hand. No one is going to believe you have the ace if you check the flop on the button.

Are these limped pots? The BBs don't add up, but I'm assuming they are limped pots.

Ex1, I probably just throw 2 red chips out there ($10) so almost a PSB. Anything less, I think we're just begging for a light caller. If I get one caller, and I have my usual tight image, and he's aware of that, I consider betting the river. Two+ callers I'm done with it. Our position has told us no one is interested in this pot at all, so lets take it.

Ex2, I just check. Too bad a position and not enough idea of what people behind us are doing. I probably fold to any reasonable bet too since we're not going to have the odds and we're OOP.

Ex3 is pretty much the same as Ex1, IMO.

Nitpicky comment: The reason why you're asking this is because you're limping in here. #1 and #3 are hands you can raise pre a decent amount at 1/2 games. Just make sure to raise enough to thin the field.

Second overall comment: I think you're looking to spew here if you're even considering betting into some of these pots.

#2 is an easy check 6 ways OOP. Getting called so often by A and Q. You can just wait to see if you hit on the river and have them pay you once you actually have a hand.

I think playing this like a bluff (as suggested by wizard) is just FPS.

#1 I lead unless there's 3 to a flush or something like that.

#3 I may be in the minority here but even in position I'd just check it five ways and draw to my 4 (or 10) outs. I find I get looked up too often in these spots by at least someone.

A good rule of thumb for 1/2 is to very, very rarely bluff 4+ way limped pots.

A second good rule of thumb is to semi bluff more when you have overs that are outs.

A third good rule of thumb is to not semi bluff much when you only have gutterball draws instead of OESD.

Yeah, I brainfarted the OP bb numbers, sorry, these are limped pots.


I agree, I will often raise in #1 and #3, although in a LP game, you often just end up with either 5 callers anyways, or you end up heads up against someone with a superior hand that they won't easily release.

Sometimes my image is such that I know I will not be getting away with raising light very much in position; in those scenarios, I forgo the raise and played the multiway limped pot with the drawing hand.

But I definitely see your point.