$1/$2 at Mohegan Sun on a Saturday afternoon. Solid table with some loose passive older folks, a spewy fish or two, and a couple solid players. Hero is a 30yo white guy playing a TAG style who is a solid winner in this game. I cover the players in this hand.

V1 - Passive old white guy. Playing tighter than some of the others at the table. $200 stack.

V2 - Loose passive middle aged white guy. We played a hand earlier in the session where I opened A7s to $10. He called and another player called. Flop AATss. I bet $10 he clicks to $25 I call. Turn 2s, check check. River K, I bet $20 he calls with A9o chop pot. $200 stack.

V3 - Very loose passive African American woman. She is one of the worst players at the table as far as I can tell. Playing well over half of hands, cold-calling raises left and right and limp-calling with complete trash. She has been donking quite a bit. One time she had it (97cc on Q85ccc flop where she turned the 6c and stacked KQxc) but other times, not so much. $100 stack.

OTTH:

Hero opens UTG+1 to $10 with 78dd. I'm sure this is a borderline at best open, but no one at the table is 3betting and V3 is the big blind.

V1 calls next to act

V2 calls in position.

V3 calls big blind.

Flop: Ad 8h 6d (Pot: $37)

V3 leads for $15

Hero calls (?) with middle pair and a weak flush draw

V1 calls $15

V2 raises to $30

V3 calls $30

Hero?

Curious as to thoughts on this spot, as well as what you would do facing the small donk bet on this board four ways. Seems like I could have easily raised the donk bet, and I am considering back 3betting at this juncture. I also am considering calling, getting absurdly good odds to hit a diamond or an 8. Part of me just wants to fold as well, since I don't think V2 is ever bluffing here and I could be drawing next to dead if V2 has a hand like 66 and there is a better flush draw out there.

V2 is very unlikely to have a flush draw. V3 might but it is more likely she has something else and she only has $60 left anyways. There is about $120 in the pot and the old man looks like he is the one who may be in the way of you having a chance to win this pot. A jam might get you to 9 outs at the minimum. Maybe everyone folds to it.

If you call. You might have 14 outs. You might have 0.

I hate to fold this much equity but it also might be the smartest play since you have such a huge edge on them normally.

Man idk I'm just ramming here. If its flush over flush then its a cooler. You're gonna see all kinds of 75, 79, random trash...SPR is like 1ish with the deepest stack? I also raise flop and fold pre with any competent players at the table.

Kinda want to rip this, thinking maybe you run into a set but there's a chance you can fold out a better FD.
V3 isn't likely to fold with the short stack but probably has an Ace so that's fine, her call pads the pot.
We want V1 out as he's the one that most looks to be on a good draw, and with his $200 stack next to act he may fold.
V2 is probably not likely to fold.

Don't mind calling but playing cautious if V1 comes to life.

Yeah, I agree with everything in here. I do think there is a world in which everyone folds if I jam. It's hard to imagine V2 has a set when he minraises a wet board four ways, but I do think he likely has a strong hand and not a draw when he raises flop. Think it's possible he could fold a big hand though.

To your point on my edge being so big at this table that I don't need to take this weird/close spot, I think that is reasonable and not something I had considered at the time of the hand. I'll share a hand history vs. V3 that happened an hour after this one to illustrate: V3 limps UTG off a short stack. I raise to $10 with AQo. Btn calls. V3 calls. Flop A78ss. V3 donk jams for slightly over pot ($35-$40) I call and Btn folds. Villain shows 82o and I hold.

Had I seen her donk with second pair no kicker before this 87dd hand, it might have pushed me to raise the flop here.

The idea that jamming might fold out a better flush draw was not something I considered at the table, but it was something that I realized after. I think that's a strong argument for jam here. V1 struck me as the type of player that would definitely fold a hand like QTdd if I jam. Don't know if V3 would fold a flush draw for $60 more, but she could just as easily have a made hand or even a worse draw than 87dd. It's entirely possible she has some random gutshot, as Stupidbanana suggested.

I don't understand V2's min click raise to $30 ?

Yeah it's a not a good play. In the $1/$2 games I play, I feel like the minclick is basically the most prevalent post-flop raise size. Some players it's all they do. I saw a hand they other day where one guy had Qx and another had 33 on QQ33x. Qx bet for 1/3 pot on the river and 33 min-raised. Qx just called and the final pot was like $100. Tragic.

pre: In general the deeper you are the better it is to play sc's from EP. Its great that you are aware that fishy V3 is in the BB but the fact that she has an extremely wide range and a 50bb stack is working against you and she will have a lot of hands that call in the BB that most people won't play but will have your 8 high crushed. Given other reads I don't think the open is that bad overall since you aren't going to get blown off your hand by aggro 3 betters and you're likely to get a few more calls along the way but I'd still say this open is slight -EV.

flop: I see this over and over again on this site. H plays a bit of a speculative hand (given the situation) and hits the god tier 1% flop and plays it passive. If I get this board for 100bb stacks I am finding every way I can to get the money in. If you raise you fold out a huge assortment of hands that have you beat (2 people in the hand play Ace rag offsuit), the vast majority of the time you get called its going to be a top pair hand where we are close to even money.

Raise to 50-60 on the flop, if you get a call behind its a poorly played AQo type hand or the nut FD or another combo draw since 90% of the time 2 pair or better never calls flop raises on a FD board. V3 is going to stack off with any ace but is short. If you get a call jam turn for 140 and every hand I just mentioned has a decent chance to fold and if not you still got a pile of equity.

This is a very good post, thank you for taking the time. Your take on pre-flop is noted. I have been working on tightening up my EP opening range (cutting out "fun" suited hands, offsuit broadways, and baby pairs) but I'm obviously not all the way there. Important consideration regarding BB's range too. If she calls $10 with J8o, opening 78s becomes a lot less attractive. On the flip side, she will miss a lot of flops and check fold... but then again this isn't online 6max, where my open raise will get me heads up with BB a lot of time. Almost always going to be cold callers here.

Raise flop and jam turn at this stack depth makes sense. The fact that a small percentage of the time I am drawing dead here four ways doesn't matter that much when I play in such an aggressive manner. And even then, it's only 100bb and it's still a good move in the long run.

Also I know you are being hyperbolic to make a very good point but I do want to mention that this is absolutely not a top 1% flop for my hand lol. Suited hands flop a flush .8% of the time, direct connected cards flop a straight 1.5% of the time, odds of flopping two pair are 2%, etc. plus there are better combo draw (incl. Top Pair + Flush draw, straight flush draw, etc.) boards.

You are drawing dead to nothing. Even against 66 you aren't in terrible shape (you even got a backdoor open ender) + there is a chunk of money in the middle. You block A8 and 88 and they can't have AA. You are about 55% vs the nut flush with 2 overs. Get the money in there and gamble with V3 and make any aces behind you fold.

Right, I meant I could be drawing dead multi-way if V2 as A8 or 66 and V3 calls off with a better flush draw. Definitely a different spot if I’m heads up or if I have reason to believe I have the only flush draw.

Old men hate calling stacks for flush draws. Thats why i said in the first post jam gets him off his flush draw and no one else has is if you dont fold and choose a better spot. I hate calling other than it is for only $15. If you call I thinkyou are drawing close to dead a large percentage of the time

Its better to think about scenarios that happen the majority of the time, all those weak aces being folded out to your raise, then it is thinking about the very unlikely scenario of 3 people having gigantic hands that fit together in a way that makes it so you can't win. These kind of things don't even enter my mind.

Yeah, this is the conclusion I came to as well. I folded facing the $15 min raise. I don't know if I should ever fold getting 8.5-to-1 but it's what I did here. Was concerned I might be drawing dead and the potential reverse implied odds of hitting a no-good draw or making a no-good two pair.

I hate how I played this hand. Probably speaks to the fact that this should have been a fold pre.

The result of the hand is that V2 called the $15 so three ways to a blank turn. Checks through?? Blank river. Checks to V2 who bets $20. V3 folds quickly (draw?) and V1 calls $20. V2 has A6 for a flopped two pair, which he minraised on the flop and then checked back on the turn? V1 has AK for TPTK which he did not 3bet pre.

I would have missed, so from a results-oriented POV I lost the minimum but I think I butchered the hand overall. Don't think V2 ever folds flopped two pair but I wish I had raised the flop donk and jammed turn. Back-jamming flop as played feels like a good option as well. Live and learn! Appreciate the feedback.

The thing with this kind of hand is that you are never crushed by anything, but you are flipping vs. A5o and too many random 1-2 players are going to be problematic to fold any top pair, and might well decide A9o is just as good as AK here. As with many spots the less terrible the players the better it is to raise a non-insane amount.

First time around on the flop sucks due to the donk, I'd kind of want to x/r here if it checked to me ... with the donk from the short stack who knows what they fold for even $50-60 (even better players can decide you are trying to isolate V3 and call wider), and if they don't fold flop they might wake up on the turn deciding they have to call it off with A9o. Hard to fault just calling but if we do raise I think like $85 (roughly 1.5x pot) might be best, threatening turn shoves without having to do it. If V2 called $85 I'd seriously consider checking a blank turn and board pairing turns, couldn't help myself shoving on T,9,8,5,d.

After V2 clicks random buttons backraising looks so full of shirt and V2 is probably never folding with whatever he did this with anyway ... so calling and only betting if we hit an 8 or a flush, and also knowing that even then nobody is bluffing us if they raise.