Im with amanaplan here, a loose deep pocketed whale is gunna call a whole lot more on the flop raise. That is precisely Y they are called whales. I personally HATE your raise sizing on the flop. SB leads exactly 1/2 pot and BB cawls. Like I said I am crankin that SHT up - playing pots with this type of player is exactly where a HUGE slug of your earn comes from...and raising smaller is leaving piles upon piles of EV on the table imo

Hero bets $250. SB thinks for a while and folds. BB calls after about 20 seconds.

River ($940) River 8d. BB checks...

Hero has $610 left......

If he's gonna call he's gonna call whether 82dd on 48hh or Q8 or Q6 or 55. If he's gonna fold it's gonna be air, so shove. I think you made some poor sizing choices throughout the hand, including pre where you likely do better adding more to your normal opens.

This. Sizing is just awful every street. More everywhere.

What ever your scared of that guy having you had best just check behind.... Personally I would bet 350-440 as played and call any raise.

Trivial shove on the river. If he was chasing a FD, he won't call anything other than a super small bet. I'd rather not piss him off by "disrespecting" him. The river doesn't complete any realistic draws. If he got there with Q8, you're not folding to a raise.

I hate going for 3 streets of value with 1 pair

but if I do its only against a station or a whale

depending on a better read a shove might be ok

is the whale a player with some skills ?

if so I check back

like others in a loose game size up a little pre , flop , turn

This I don't get. Since when is a standard opensize (at a table you really don't know anything about, right?) a poor choice? Can you elaborate on this? Even more so because you're the one who has always advocated opening smaller, not bigger.

Edit: ah wait, it's probably solely because of the whale in the bb... never mind then.

"Loose deep pocketed whale"

sounds like this guy doesn't mind calling a 2/3p shove with worse than tptk

are you posting this because he showed you a set?

No, I posted because the deeper you are, the more variety of ways there are to play a hand and I wanted opinions on sizing. I'm a little surprised because I thought I played it fairly standard but I'm never against doing anything non standard

I'd up the sizings when my opp's calling ranges are in-elastic
and shipping river expecting to be very profitable in the long run

What?

If I bet I'm all in. Checking is ok but if he's as bad as you describe I probably just bet all in and figure he's got kq or a missed flush draw

Yea that last part. SB too as described. There isn’t a better scenario I can imagine creating than getting to play my open range IP vs SB and/or BB. I’d probably set my own tone this deep w BB and consider opening to 35-40 as long as BB comes along.

Hero checks back on the river thinking that BB had the FD and cant call a bet. BB shows Jh3h and the chips slide his way.

So you completely blew it. Get all the money in on the flop or the turn, period - and more pre and you'll just felt this guy forever.

This post makes no sense at all.

Only because you’re fixated on the result. Stack tf off pre river and this guy hands you all the cash. I don’t care that he had 2p ott, that’s probably his best available combo vs one of your worst.

Mike the only interesting question is whether you would have called a bet on the river?

That sure wouldve been interesting. It depends how much he bet, but I doubt I would call a big bet. People bluff missed FDs, but rarely in a spot like this with a pot this big would they check/call...check/call and then fire out $500 on the river when they miss.

He’s meaning what your range in this spot vs. V’s range in this spot will usually look like as opposed to this specific hand runout.

I know what he meant, but he wants to stack off pre river. The stacks are too deep for that.

The pot was $160 when it got to me on the flop. I cant jam $980. That's ridiculous.

On the turn the pot was $440. I guess maybe in some bizarro world I could jam $860 but that's a bit crazy also. If I had $600 left on the turn I wouldnt mind an overbet shove, but $860?

I called the guy a whale but maybe that confused things. I dont think hes calling $860 into a $440 pot with a FD. That's just a bet that's made because we are afraid to get outdrawn.

Another option would've been to raise the flop to $200, but I can tell you pretty confidently that the SB would ve folded his Qx. Thats a bad result IMO. We obviously don't want him folding a Q.

That wouldve made the pot $520 on the turn if the BB called. I would've had $780 left. I guess maybe I could jam the turn at that point....but in this particular case the result wouldve been drastically worse and I still dont think he would call that with just a FD.

so with all of this info and you having all the answers y bother posting the hand?

serious question

Awww your first mikestarr thread

As I said, I wanted opinions on sizing. I got several good opinions. Jamming some crazy amount on the flop or turn isnt my idea of a good line, but to each his own

I think some of these shove turn HUGE overbet posts are just busting OP's cookies but to newbies reading this it is bad advice.

playing 200+BB is not the same as 100 BB poker