In HH1: 3b or fold. I obviously lean toward 3!ing if you think his open is weak.

How often do you really expect to win the pot without the best hand in a 5-way pot with the worst absolute and relative position, no initiative and a hand that you were damn lucky to flop anything better than BDFD + double-gapped BDSD?

Main hand:

Flat pre is good. x/c flop is best play available, with the plan to lead big on A or diamond turn, x/f'ing any other turn that doesn't improve our equity and leading river whenever turn checks through and a K+ doesn't hit.

Note that x/c'ing the flop with the intention of x/r'ing a blank turn is really bad. You're raising a range that is essentially 100% overpairs with a line that really doesn't look like a set in a spot where our range includes a million draws. He shan't be folding.

As played, x/c turn and lead any diamond rivers and x/shove any 7/Q river.

ETA: Well, ****, we x/r'ed turn. Don't do that next time. x/c flop, x/r turn is arguably the worst line we could take.

As played, yes, shove. Sucks when he has the 4 combos of JJ and AKdd, but we just have to hope he calls with his 18 combos of QQ+ 25% of the time.

What does you having diamonds have to do with giving him worse odds. All of villans flush draws have you beat. So of we raise larger we can clean up our equity vs draws and sometimes over pairs fold. It doesn't matter if he isn't getting an immediately profitable call on the turn of he has some implies odds. So in reality if villain does have a flush draw he is ahead so we aren't getting value.

The sizing is designed to look super strong and gain as much fold equity as possible. That sizing would look stronger than a shove because it means we are committed to the hand and Even though we can check fold river unimproved when called.

I'd say calling> x raise pot> x raise shove> x raise to 175> fold

Well, river seems like the easiest decision, so I will post results:

Hero shoved river, Villain asked "what did he say?" and called. Hero showed, V turns QQ faceup, and MHIG.

Nh, never understand some LLSNL players...why V wouldn't shove turn if he is going to call river when a scare card hits...you would have been pretty close to priced in...u prob wouldn't have the odds but c'mon ppl are calling there

I've just never heard of such a thing at a low stakes 1-3 game. It just seems kind of trivial over a couple hundred bucks.

A couple hundred bucks isn't trivial for everyone

Agreed that river is trivial.

What do you make of the result?

Gimo,itshowsthatwemassivelyspewed,butI'mguessingno teveronewillagree?G

I made of it that we made a play on the turn that would look super strong, had not an insignificant amount of fold equity, but had 15 outs if called. I felt (and still feel) that V cannot 3! shove us OTT here unless he holds precisely JJ, so our risk is minuscule compared to the potential payoff.

I still don't know what I would've done if we whiffed river, but now we know this V cannot fold an OP, like, ever. Extremely valuable information.

I don't see how our risk is less than simply check/calling if he's never going to fold (and all signs pointed to him having an overpair which he wasn't going to fold, but perhaps I'm being too results oriented?).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Yeah, I think the difference there is we didn't know at the time that V was incapable of folding an overpair. I agree that it's exactly what it looked like he had. My mindset was that this V was typically competent enough, and we were certainly deep enough, that he would strongly consider laying down an overpair to the turn raise. My raise looks like its completely for value, and we can rep all the sets plus a straight. He had to know that he would likely be facing a huge river bet, so he essentially commits to calling down a 600bb pot with one pair. I thought there was a significant chance he would dump it there, and if not, we have good equity.

Now I know he won't fold an overpair, and if this exact spot happened again, I would c/c the turn.

^^^ if I were you I'd assume all $1/3 players are incapable of folding an overpair until they prove otherwise.

If villain folded the turn with an overpair, he would not be competent at all.

Villain knows that you are capable of raising draws and there are ~289380429835093840598340958434 draws out there. He should also seriously question why you wouldn't raise the flop with a set, and the only hands that improved on the turn are ... I don't know. Surely 86s/97s/J8s don't raise pre and he can't expect you to have 88 too much after the flop.

Hoping for villain to fold an overpair on this board with your image here is just a straight up prayer and a dream. I almost feel like you assumed that x/c'ing twice with a draw was a total fish play, so you figured you'd raise, and you just retconned a theory about why he would fold an OP here.

I just wonder if this would have been a PAHWM if hero would have missed his draw. The c/r on the turn was pretty spew given his image and his opponent and the sizing was pretty bad. Also, he no idea what to do if he had missed his draw.

Agree, the sizing could make the opponent fold nothing....And I don't see any plan from OP for river. And his opponent should clearly fold his hand face up instead of calling when nothing he can beat.

Certainly it would have been; I think it is clear that OP is wondering if his early streets are spew (especially if he's not sure how to handle the river). It's a good PAHWM, imo.

Gno?G

Not really. It's a basic fold preflop, call flop, call turn hand. The only thing that made it interesting was the decision to check raise on the turn. But given his reasoning "I'm going to bloat the pot just in case I hit my draw so I can go all in on the river" and the amount he raised, it turned out to be a pretty bad move. And I doubt if he had lost the hand that he would have turned this into a PAWHM.

Careful. I hear what you are saying. Our game is 1/3 and runs multiple times but I always run once because I can stomach the variance, and others cant, so they will give up some draws even when they have the odds. But thinking in terms of $ instead of BB is the type of thing whales are made of...

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