Bet $200 but doesn't expect a call. Better hands still are not folding but they are very unlikely when they both check again. V1 is very unlikely and V2 probably never checking a better hand. It's less likely worse will call, though 88 might stick around. The bet here is actually primarily protection, keeping AK from getting a free shot at hitting. If somebody shoves over a bet now I'm more inclined to fold but might still call V1.

If we’re not betting the flop with queens is there a range for any bets on this flop from OP? Especially after a 3-bet? Are we just checking our entire range? That’s what seems to be really throwing me off on this hand.

I think you have to bet turn now. $200-250. I’m prob folding to any check raise from either villain and looking to bet fold most rivers that aren’t an A,K, or 4- liner.

Sort of my thoughts. The song "going the distance" was playing in my head the whole time. 3! pot with QQ on a low flop and i am looking to play for stacks.

this flop is a must bet. V2 has way more 88-JJ in his range than sets, and v1 has everything. just barrel.

I found myself almost being convinced of checking back the flop, but I think I would bet the flop. $200 sounds about right - small enough that V2 my check-raise semi-bluff with a hand that we beat. Or if called, plan to shove on the turn.

But as played, I'd bet $200 on the turn expecting both villains to fold. Very unlikely a better hand than yours checks the turn.

I'd also call either player's check-raise. V1 is a maniac and you've shown weakness on the flop, GII with the overpair.

As for V2, what would he check-raise with here? I would definitely expect a turn bet with flopped monster. He's not risking giving 2 free cards with a set or 2 pair here. And if he flopped a straight, he's most likely value betting the turn and hoping someone has a hand to call that and a river bet. So a turn check-raise by V2 is likely a semi-bluff to fold hero's AK or AQ that wouldn't have cbet the flop but is now taking a stab at a passive pot OTT.

Flop seems fine to be a range check on rainbow board. You’re basically never bluffing here when you bet flop with two EP callers vs your 3b. AA is a much better check, but QQ isnt a bad check.

Ap Bet turn $200 shove safe rivers.

Bet $200.

I have a feeling you’re going to get checkraised here.

I don’t know why everyone think V1 or V2 won’t check a monster here twice.

you know the tilter doesn't have anything, or she would have taken a stab at the pot already. V2..... meh. He is either 2 pair + or air. If he has an over pair or pair+draw, he is going to bet the turn to try to protect his equity.

as played, bet 275 on the turn and snap call the tilter. look for reads against V2

If this is true, you are doing it wrong. If our range for 3 bet (4 bet if we consider the straddle) squeezing a tilty asian women after a meh call from a grinder is solely overpairs, we have more problems than what to do in this particular hand.

Been awhile since I've said this, but I'm with Ava here, and if we are not going allin, then ffs, at least bet the flop. I would go with at least a pot sized bet.

TBH, if you're going to check the flop, you check the turn, too. My concern is that the tilty player has had two shots to stab at the pot and didn't. She's likely based on the reads to be an opposite player, slow playing her monsters and pushing her marginal hands.

I would have bet the flop, though. Lots of worse hands in a 3bet pot can call. Sure, it says your hand is an overpair, but a newcomer to the room that 3 bets is going to have a range of OP and AK to the regulars anyway. Checking isn't going to hide it.

I didn't mean the only hand you can ever have here is an overpair, my point is that is what a bet is saying.

I'm curious if you are betting your whole range here.

OP isnt the only one you will be having trouble convincing(even though i understand from the tone of your post that it was time to bring forward the big ego once again), i can tell you that much. Overbet shoving here is just terrible. For multiple reasons:


-This is the kind of play i laugh of when i see it at the tables, usually its done by a scared money nit or a horrible OMC. In a nutshell they are just flat out telling their opponents that they have QQ+, so they are literally saying out loud "feel free to save money and fold your 99 or 1010 right away boys". When opponents sighs and fold their JJ overpair to the flop overshove, OMC proudly shows his KK and announces that he "dont want anyone to outdraw me". They choose a sizing wich means they cant have anything bout the effective nutz (huge overpair), because nobody can have enough bluffs, or any bluffs at all for that matter- with the overbet sizing in order to create any doubt in our opponents mind.


-So what is indeed a disaster with the allin overbet in this spot is that we are choosing a betsize/line that narrows our range in ridicilous fashion. Thats the reason to choose a more "normal" sizing Ava, widening our own range,make it harder to play against us, and making it more difficult to put us accurately on a hand- not your convinient strawman about being attached to the potsize. We suddenly cant have any bluffs/semibluffs in our range from our opponents perspective, cause we are never ever taking this overbet sizing with like AQ/AK and even morons in the game knows this. In other words we are helping our opponents to play as perfect as possible against us, because we have literally flipped our cards over to them as a big overpair. We ensure that worse hands gets every insentive in the world to make strong folds, and at the same time we get stacked by straights-sets and two pair combos every single time. Freaking nice outcome. Especially is this critical regarding the possibly good pro, who can confidently fold hands like his 99-1010 combos here knowing for sure he is beat by our bigger overpair, and snap stackoff every hand that beats a big overpair. We are literally destroying ourself.


-We are giving asian spazzlady (our main target by far and its not even close) zero room to check-spazz shove on us, and zero room to continue in this hand with as wide a range as possible wich she might would to a much smaller betsize. We have effectively taken every play away from both our opponents by monkeyshoving allin, and locking them up in a small corner. In situations like this (with a huge fish or tilted villain in the pot) alot of our EV is related to taking the lines that best exploit this opponent. Choosing lines that maximizes the chances of getting it all from the fish, in relation to that opponent weaknesses-is where the big money comes from. With the proof we have so far on her clearly having aggro spazz tendencies its criminal to not give her at least some rope to hang herself on the flop with a light check-shove.

You don't think V2 is 3! V1 with TT/JJ? If he is a decent player seems like he is 3! these all day to Iso V1 and prevent overcards with position from joining the party.

I woudnt be so sure about that. Asian lady after all raised UTG in a straddled pot, and backpack pro is next to act UTG+1 with the whole table behind to act. People routinely flat 99-1010-JJ here alot more often than you would think,even many good winning players would default to that option playing deepstacked.

Against most Villains I might agree but Asian lady also raised/4 bet UTG with JT which makes me think backpack pro would Iso 3! JJ/TT.

Hero has QdQh

Turn ($340) 7h6c5s...Td...they both check to me again

At this point I felt like its pretty unlikely either of them had anything. I think very few players check back the flop (any flop) in a 3 bet pot with an overpair so if either of them had any kind of made hand they wouldve led the turn. So I bet $100 thinking I was going to take it down pretty easily. V1 instamucked. V2 looked at my stack for a bit and then check raised to $270.

Tough spot as we don't know if our small bet induced. This is a spot where I would expect a backpack Pro to try to make a move so I'm calling here but not thrilled about it.

Surprised at the number of checkers on the flop. There are 13 or so combos of 77/66/55/76s/65s, while there dozens of combos 88+. Need to bet for value, imho.

AP, I'd just fold vs. the turn C/R. The 30% PSB looks weak, may have induced V2 with a hand like T9s. If U plan to call turn, then plan to call most rivers.

CRAI likely called by better only. Fold.

This is only a fair and complete analysis if we are confident that we will not be check raised as a bluff/semibluff which given both of these villains I'm not confident of.

Given the history, r u concerned about a V1 CR? I'm not.

V2 is another case, perhaps 88/87s. Nevertheless the board does not have FD/pair combos and he is oop. If he C/R I'd lean B/F in a vaccum.

Definitely more worried about V2 than V1, but to Venice's point earlier in the thread, if V1 goes from typically driving the action to what looks like a more trappy move I would start to think about an opposite player.

I would also add 99 and 44 (V2 called V1's raise and then we 3! small and are fairly deep) to your list of hands above, in addition to some pure bluffs.

Well, you've created a weird spot by making 3 curious decisions out of 3. How you proceed comes down to what you think villain thinks of you. I'd go 330 if I wanted to go for all of your chips. So what does 270 mean? Idk

Weird bet sizing makes this hard to judge. I'm going with call and see what happens on river. The problem is that calling now probably means facing another bet on the river. So I can't say that folding is bad.

It's unlikely either of you have a monster but V2 has more chance then you do. Your small bet may have gotten him to try and bluff you off this hand. Heck, if he think you are making a delayed c-bet he could think his JJ is the best hand.

V2 has all 12 sets and maybe 76s. Checking turn with a set and no flush draw is not out of the realm of possibility given your capped nature at overpair/big cards.

In his mind, you either pot controlled an overpair and will bet turn or he’s giving you the chance to bluff AK. He’s not worried about a 4-liner given the way the action played out, and by x maybe he gets a spazz bet from V1 OTR.

If he’s making a move this is a great board to do it on given he can have every set possible. I probably sigh-fold at this point unless I’m prepared to call off a river bet.

This is what I meant by V2’s action being confusing up to our turn action. Very non-standard and he shouldn’t have many bluffs here.

Bet flop and gii. Two agro players are going to play back at you enough to justify stacking off with one pair here. Neither player will have low cards all that often.

Shoving flop is interesting and not bad but it's hard for either V to make a mistake with that sizing. At same time it is harder for us to make a mistake on turn when a bad card comes, which is a decent % of the time.

If one of the Vs can spaz thinking you will fold with an overpair I don't mind a $150-200 bet. They may also call such a bet with TT, JJ and fold those hands to a shove.

Re: flop decision, I missed the post where we soulread 2 villains and check because our overpair is 100% crushed against their checking range