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PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl)

03-14-2015 , 06:19 AM
UTG: Hero (covers everyone) raises $35 (standard opening size).

UTG + 1 : V1 (~$1000)calls.

SS: V2 (~$800)calls.

Hero has a LAG image. Has ran well and just doubled my stack a couple of hands ago. Been aggressive and won a number of hands without going to showdown.

V1: A decent player who folded 2 previous hands to my barrels.

V2: big fish. Typical loose passive player.

Flop ($115): QT4 rainbow.

v2 checks, Hero cbet $80, V1 raises to $160, V2 folds, hero???
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 06:52 AM
I'd fold pre flop. Loose passive will call with plenty of hands that dominate us here. I hate being OOP and unsure.

As played, the flop bet is good, and I'd call V's raise. You said he'd folded to your previous barrels, but that's not looking good after he raised the flop. I'm not 3 betting here. Immediate + implied odds are great. Call.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaKid
I'd fold pre flop. Loose passive will call with plenty of hands that dominate us here. I hate being OOP and unsure.
Uh... every kind of player will call with plenty of hands that dominate us, and there are a bunch of them left to act with position on us. The loose passive player in the blinds who will actually call with a bunch of hands we dominate is an argument for opening KJs UTG, while the rest of the table is an argument for folding.

Preflop is whatever, with a target in the blinds it's never too bad. Flop is a pretty standard cbet and call the minraise: V's range is pretty strong here. Turn?
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 09:42 AM
yea folding the flop here isn't really an option. Do we have a backdoor flush draw?

I'm probably just flatting.

No reason to raise and then get blown off our hand. Plus, we're pretty deep, and I'd imagine we're winning a nice stack when we hit our straight.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian O'Nolan
Uh... every kind of player will call with plenty of hands that dominate us, and there are a bunch of them left to act with position on us. The loose passive player in the blinds who will actually call with a bunch of hands we dominate is an argument for opening KJs UTG, while the rest of the table is an argument for folding.

Preflop is whatever, with a target in the blinds it's never too bad. Flop is a pretty standard cbet and call the minraise: V's range is pretty strong here. Turn?
This, though I fold the trouble hand UTG, even with a target in the blinds. We'll have postion on him almost every hand, and out position on the rest of the table sucks worse than our holdings here.

Once we get to flop though, the hand plays itself.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 10:41 AM
Fold pre. KJ is a terrible hand UTG. Fine on the turn, though I'd bet a little smaller, probably $70. Call the min-raise. You get over 3-to-1 to hit the nut straight draw plus an over card. Even better implied odds.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian O'Nolan
Uh... every kind of player will call with plenty of hands that dominate us, and there are a bunch of them left to act with position on us. The loose passive player in the blinds who will actually call with a bunch of hands we dominate is an argument for opening KJs UTG, while the rest of the table is an argument for folding.

Preflop is whatever, with a target in the blinds it's never too bad. Flop is a pretty standard cbet and call the minraise: V's range is pretty strong here. Turn?
Maybe I should clarify. I'm not specifically worried about SB here, but the rest of the table. With no reads on the rest of the table, they're all leaning towards loose passive until I see otherwise. At least at my typical table.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian O'Nolan
Uh... every kind of player will call with plenty of hands that dominate us,
And this part isn't quite true. Plenty of players (though not usually an entire table full) will 3 bet almost all hands that crush us. These guys would be much better to raise into.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 11:33 AM
is this full ring or 6 max?

Full ring is a fold UTG - 6 max is meh with kj suited

That flop is not all that dry and I don't think a flop bet will get them to fold much. I'd bet smaller - like $60-75

As played just call the flop raise. See a turn and hope it's a 9 or A. Probably have to check give up on the turn if he barrels big since we are only 100bb deep.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 12:52 PM
It's a very small minority of LLSNL players who will 3b a UTG raise with AJ or KQ.

As played, easy call otf. V1's range is strong and we're getting beautiful odds.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaKid
Maybe I should clarify. I'm not specifically worried about SB here, but the rest of the table. With no reads on the rest of the table, they're all leaning towards loose passive until I see otherwise. At least at my typical table.
At a loose-passive table I like limping this hand and, on this flop, checking in the hopes that if it gets checked around an ace on the turn will give someone top pair and I will get two streets of value from them.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaKid
Maybe I should clarify. I'm not specifically worried about SB here, but the rest of the table. With no reads on the rest of the table, they're all leaning towards loose passive until I see otherwise. At least at my typical table.
Cheers bro! You get your loose passive typical table on here.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 03:02 PM
Call and try to hit turn. If you hit you probably stack him. If miss fold. Don't like raising here I don't see him folding and he might be superrrrrrrrrrrr strong
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 04:30 PM
Hollywood-call. We have way too much equity to fold. The min-raise is either a monster or an attempt to "find out where he's at." Nice opportunity to observe how he reacts to your decision, and let him level himself a bit on blank turns.

And FWIW, I'm totally fine with raising KJs UTG when I'm playing LAG. If I get reraised, I chuck it, otherwise I let the fit-or-fold TAGs wait for a better spot.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 08:07 PM
I agree that KJs is a trouble hand to play OOP. However, given the passiveness of the majority of players in the table(no one has yet tried to play back at my aggression), and the "run good, feel good factor", I decided to open KJs UTG.

Back to the hand.

i have 2 options now: Call or Raise. Folding isn't really option given that I have a decent equity in this hand. I have decided to raise to $425 after thinking about it for some time.
Almost instantaneously, the villain said all in.

I tanked... During this time, I kept glancing at him. He appeared to be very confident (or at least this is what he wants me to think?).

Hero should fold or call?
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 08:46 PM
Well, you're obviously calling now. If I followed the hand correctly it's $340 to call a pot of $1305. You're getting the odds to hit a straight over two streets. You might get lucky and the K is an out too.

Folding after reraising over half the effective stacks would be a colossal mistake
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 08:47 PM
What were you trying to accomplish by raising flop?
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 08:48 PM
Assuming you are not thinking He has J9 and K hi is good, we have to hit our hand.

Pot is laying us less than 2:1 (1.7:1 if my math is right) With two cards to come and 8 outs we are not getting the righ price. I don't think we can plan on a pair of K being a good out. If it is that means he likely also has an A which is one of our outs. Plus some redraw outs for his sets and 2p and I think our equity is going to be no more than 30-32%.

Math says fold.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 08:49 PM
nice guy eddie, your math is off, effective stacks start the hand at 1000, so he has to call 540 more
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.M.O.U.
nice guy eddie, your math is off, effective stacks start the hand at 1000, so he has to call 540 more
You're right. I had V2 as the villain shoving. Disregard my previous post.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 09:07 PM
We have $1k, V had $800 to start.

IMO, I think raising pre UTG was a little overly aggressive but I think 3-betting flop was the much bigger mistake and pretty reckless.

If you have some scared money opponents, you may be able to run over them w play like this and establish a wild and crazy image but you're wasting 180 BB here.

Now, you have to call but you've made some mistakes, IMO.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyurus
We have $1k, V had $800 to start.

IMO, I think raising pre UTG was a little overly aggressive but I think 3-betting flop was the much bigger mistake and pretty reckless.

If you have some scared money opponents, you may be able to run over them w play like this and establish a wild and crazy image but you're wasting 180 BB here.

Now, you have to call but you've made some mistakes, IMO.

V had 1k this is a fold.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andnoel
I agree that KJs is a trouble hand to play OOP. However, given the passiveness of the majority of players in the table(no one has yet tried to play back at my aggression), and the "run good, feel good factor", I decided to open KJs UTG.
1. You have winner's tilt
2. The table is passive and you were min-raised and assumed that that meant the Villain was weak and would fold?

I wasn't there, all I have to go on is your words, but things don't sound good.

Your continuation bet was too large, and when you get raised it's much closer to a fold than a get it in spot.

Last edited by au4all; 03-14-2015 at 09:35 PM.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-14-2015 , 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cAmmAndo
V had 1k this is a fold.
Misread. My bad.
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote
03-15-2015 , 01:27 AM
Isn't there about 1500 in the pot at this point and its 540 to call?

$110 preflop

Villain's $965 on flop

Hero's $425 on flop

then its $540 to hero to call or fold?

Am I missing something here?
PAHWM: KJs UTG (1000nl) Quote

      
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