Yes, although I suppose it depends on the situation. I prefer it because I think better connectedness is worth more than the extra pip.

JT makes 4 straights just like any connector JT-54 (789, 89Q, 9QK, QKA), while QT only makes 3 (89J, 9JK, JKA). Consequently JT flops draws and is able to continue post-flop more often.

QT makes a straight on AKJ, KJ9, J98, JT makes a straight on AKQ, KQ9, Q98, 987

lol

lol indeed. Learn something new everyday.

Extra pip?

I think being able to be 2nd NF (or even nuts on As boards) is a little more valuable than being slightly more connected, esp when 300 bigs deep. I would think we want to be having the 2nd NF or nuts while others can have 3rd/4th NF this deep than other way around, and I think K/Q TP are slightly more valuable than J tp. I do think J10s-K10s have similar EVs though and shouldnt differ too much. Plus say with K10s when we flop a Ten we are only losing to A10s wrt kicker, whereas J10s we lose to QT/KT/A10

Id probably take K10s anyday over J10s esp this deep but QTs/J10s should be a lot closer and not sure either way, tho personally i would prefer Q10s very very slightly more this deep.

The cooler factor and being on the good side of it is very valuable in deeper pots.

If we flat turn here, are we bluffing any rivers if he checks? Diamonds?

I dont think i bluff after all straight draws and FDs brick off on a diamond and we just flat turn

When this is the case you can just go the exploitative route and be unbalanced. Similar to the thread where you said we’d be overbluffing if we 3bet the LAG with A9s from the BB.

That’s the beauty of live poker. You can play exploitative poker versus 99% of the population and only need to adjust IF AND WHEN you’ve noticed someone has adjusted to your unbalanced lines.

You probably. We are never "handcuffed" by SPR it is just a semi useful guideline but we should feel free to disregard commitment thresholds and all that nonsense if given sufficient reason.

If we lose we try to learn from it and move on. Your problem is you are so afraid to lose you miss huge opportunities to get fat value. And very very often we "could be drawing dead". Who cares? That is some MUBSY nonsense kind of answer for why to do anything. Oh don't do that, we could be drawing dead!

Say we have 66 on a flop of 886. We are deep and it's multiway. We should be shoveling money into the pot, getting stacks in. But...but...but...we could be drawing dead to 88 or 86! Better slow it down just to be safe. Because getting coolered is the end of the world obviously.

Limped pots can easily end up playing for stacks btw. People bet larger proportionately to the pot. One small raise and we are back to stacks getting in territory.

Once again GG is stubborn and refuses to listen/give anything even though he gets schooled by several posters, when he even admits over and over again in multiple threads he dont have a clue about deepstack play.

If that truly is the case, i would pull back a little and be more open to learning from better players that obviously have more handle on deepstackplay than you.

With JT, you always have the nuts, as opposed to a hand like 7/8 where you can have the dumb end.
Come on man, this stuff was common knowledge decades ago.
I'm a donkey and even i knew that stuff.

Sorry guys. You may continue.

This is what I said in the other thread. Posters clogging all threads with losing nit agendas. Makes it alot harder for people actually trying to learn.

Yeah, i totally understand where youre coming from. This forum have suffered from that alot.

In my opinion the mods should be harder on this, in terms of being on the ball and keep posters accountable when they for example run away from debates when they get owned instead of showing som humility followed by rethink their standing points,derail threads when they run out of arguments, flooding countless threads with bad advice and so forth.

Wtf are you talking about? I was comparing QTs and K10s to J10s. Too bad donkeys dont have reading comprehension lol..

Late to the party. I think this as a raise pre makes the most sense. As long as they arent back raising often, are deep, may have a massive range advantage vs the 1 limper and the other limper will slowplay the nut so we can often realize our equity plus were ip. Plus you said table was passive so were rarely getting 3! behind here. Otf I would lean towards a call since it makes life easy and several v's are playing wider ranges. I would not raise flop w/o a specific barreling plan in mind but that is an option. Ap ott I would call.

Am I missing something here? Which is it actually...the Kor K? It's actually very important information. If it's a as in your initial post, then a large part of villain's turn betting range is Kx. I think if it's actually the Kh, then villain could have had KcXc but I feel as though he would have played this more aggressively on the flop.

Regardless you can't beat anything ott, but getting 3.7:1 I think you can still peel. His lead really doesn't seem like a higher club flush draw (unless played very strangely), so I'd be less worried about getting coolered if a club came. Your immediate odds are about where they need to be to call, and implied odds* make this a pretty standard call I think.

*Villain's line seems to be strong enough that I think hero can get value on river if hand hits. Don't see villain folding river to a 1/3 psb after calling raise on flop and leading turn.

Sorry, the king was in fact a club.

Rest of the hand isn’t interesting. The river was an offsuit 8 and villain decided to bet and I folded. He later told me he flopped two pair and was planning to check/fold to a shove on any flush completing card. Take it for what it’s worth.

Thank you OP for giving us the resolution to this hand. All to often we get spirited discussion and then the thread dies. Kudos to you!

Yes, you're right, I am a donkey. I never claimed anything else. I never pretended to be anything I'm not. But hey, before you go on, continuing to hurt feelings, you should know something. Donkeys are PEOPLE TOO!

Thanks for chiming in. Good to get some differing opinions.

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