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PAHWM - JJ UTG PAHWM - JJ UTG

03-24-2024 , 08:52 AM
Thought this was a good PAHWM due to the number of different inflection points that took place.

Table Dynamics - 1/2 300 Max, NH poker room, place is relatively busy, H has been here for about 2 hours and has gotten his max buy in to about 750 and covers all. Table was super tight at first, but the older timers have left and there are two droolers who have been punting off over the past hour or so (opening with T4o, calling 3bets with J5o, folding KKs to a single bet on a 862 board literally the dream opponents)

H is a 30ish white guy who has been splashing around and playing a very aggressive style prob 3 bet 8-10 times pf which is a lot at this venue/stakes, raised river bets 2x with bluffs and got them through and has shown. Has a competent, but aggressive image, covers all

V1 - another youngish 30 year old, has about 500 and has played a relatively passive, but tight range.

v2 - complete unknown, just sat down, with only 100


H is UTG and looks down at two red Jacks and has the two droolers to his right and just limps, with the plans to l/rr.

V2 in MP opens to 10, V1 in the BB 3b to 40, H? - thoughts on the UTG play the first time?
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 11:16 AM
Ouch. I don't like the limp/rr, but I get your thinking here. A passive, tight player just 3bet from the BB? That is concerning. I either flat to setmine and/or outplay him or just fold. If I have any read that V2 is going to shove, I just fold now, which might be the best play, but hard to fold JJ.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 11:51 AM
limping UTG is never a good idea unless you have AA or KK and know someone will raise and you want to play a huge pot.

all the players could have anything. do you really want to 4-bet? You have to call and hope you hit a set
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 11:55 AM
I wouldn't limp/rr. I think the way to exploit the players you described is to open larger

AP not raising a tight passive player who 3b from the blinds. I call
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 11:55 AM
This is a tricky spot given V2's stack size. If H flats, we are vulnerable to V2 re-opening action with jam. If we raise, we could end up going three-way to the flop with a side pot, or V1 could re-raise and put us in a tight spot.

I feel like JJ is probably a coin flip against described V1's 3b range and perhaps only slightly ahead of an unknown short-stack's mp open here. I'd probably just flat call, with the plan of donking flops favoring my range (non Broadways) if V1 checks flop.

On the limp: given H's image, I think it's better to open UTG. If you are 3b by tight player, you can proceed with more confidence about his range and make some exploit folds if you want. If the short-stack jams, you learn more also and perhaps get HU if V1 folds. By limping, you sort of negate your aggro image and let the Villains into the hand without revealing more about their ranges.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 12:13 PM
Yuck. Unless you think the bad players like to raise over limps then I'd probably just open (probably to an abnormally large size like 15+). I do get the limp but JJ doesn't want it to limp around and also doesn't like the slot you find yourself in now.

I wouldn't call here. My first preference, by a whisker, would just be to fold. You've been raised by a tight passive player 250BB deep, and then someone has put in 40% of their stack. There's a decent chance you're crushed and if not you can be in some very awkward postflop spots.

The other option which also feels acceptable is to raise to 100 to try and get stacks in the the BB and fold out the original raiser, intending to fold to a jam.

I don't like calling - BB probably stacks off regardless and on any flop with an overcard you're going to be in a world of pain, particularly as the tight passive player has position on you.

Edit...ah hell I think I've got the players the wrong way round. The short stack unknown isos you and then the tight passive player with the big stack 3bets? That's also very uncomfortable but now I'd say the choice is between limp-fold and limp-call. Absolutely not 4betting now. At least you have position on the concerning stack. Happy(ish) to get the money in with the short stack but folding to a V1 jam

Last edited by moxterite; 03-24-2024 at 12:20 PM.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 12:17 PM
I'm probably never l/rr JJ here, even against 2 droolers. We've put ourselves in a tough spot because of it. Against a passive opponent's 3!, I don't see JJ being ahead of the majority of their range, and we're likely flipping with the rest of it. So I don't like raising. Given MP can put us in an even tougher spot when we call, this is an easy fold for me. We've lost nothing more than a bb. On to the next one and I don't think twice about it.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 12:47 PM
Thought this was a good PAHWM due to the number of different inflection points that took place.

Table Dynamics - 1/2 300 Max, NH poker room, place is relatively busy, H has been here for about 2 hours and has gotten his max buy in to about 750 and covers all. Table was super tight at first, but the older timers have left and there are two droolers who have been punting off over the past hour or so (opening with T4o, calling 3bets with J5o, folding KKs to a single bet on a 862 board literally the dream opponents)

H is a 30ish white guy who has been splashing around and playing a very aggressive style prob 3 bet 8-10 times pf which is a lot at this venue/stakes, raised river bets 2x with bluffs and got them through and has shown. Has a competent, but aggressive image, covers all

V1 - another youngish 30 year old, has about 500 and has played a relatively passive, but tight range.

v2 - complete unknown, just sat down, with only 100


H is UTG and looks down at two red Jacks and has the two droolers to his right and just limps, with the plans to l/rr.

V2 in MP opens to 10, V1 in the BB 3b to 40, H? - thoughts on the UTG play the first time?




H realizes that his JJ can't be in good shape against V1's range and really has no idea what V2 has but makes the call (I'd 100% fold if V2 jams, and V1 reraises/I'd also lean very close to folding if V2 jammed, and V1 called the 100)

OTTH

Flop (120ish)
KsJc9h


We obviously are very pleased we flopped a set. V1 leads for 30, H?
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 01:10 PM
Like everyone else, don't like the l/rr idea pf. I don't mind the call because the SPR is going to be around 4. If you hit, TP isn't going to be able to walk away without stacking off.

I like a click it back bet to 60 of the flop. V2 is going to feel pot committed with TP and how does V1 have any self respect if they fold getting at least 7:1? If V1 folds, they were never going to call another bet any way.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 01:15 PM
Hero is running hot, nice.

So this is very interesting since V2 only has 100.

He put in 40 pre and has 60 left.

So if V1 really bet exactly 30, this is a dream situation.

Hero flat calls because V2 can jam and it will be exactly enough to reopen betting. V1 will not fold for 30 more, he will at least call, and then hero can pop it up to like 180 and then jam turn, and hopefully V1 gets crazy and tries to iso raise to get heads up w the all in player w AK and then we can just jam.

Poker is easy when you flop sets. Congratulations
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 01:44 PM
This is a great flop for us. There are 3 combos in V1's range ahead of us and at least 15 combos we absolutely crush. Don't think we really need to worry about q10 given the player description.

I like the flat/reraise line described above. I'm not smart enough to think that way, so I'd probably raise instead of flatting in-game.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 03:59 PM
So, V2 is still in the hand with $60 left. I probably just make a normalish raise to $80 or $90. However, if you think V2 is going to shove, it might be worth it to flat the $30, let V2 shove, and see what V1 does. Regardless, I probably raise him whether he flats or raises.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 04:14 PM
Pre just open.

Flop is call I wouldn't raise anything here.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-24-2024 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donat3llo
This is a great flop for us. There are 3 combos in V1's range ahead of us and at least 15 combos we absolutely crush. Don't think we really need to worry about q10 given the player description.

I like the flat/reraise line described above. I'm not smart enough to think that way, so I'd probably raise instead of flatting in-game.
Ditto. I would have raised, but like the call plan.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-25-2024 , 01:57 AM
Like others said call and let shorty min raise jam.

I like the limp raise idea, it isolates fish and wins us position.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-25-2024 , 03:29 AM
I don't like the limp RR strategy but there is some logic to it against the droolers. After limping, we are in a weird spot vs the tight player. We can certainly fold JJ vs a 3bet when we aren't the original raiser from a tight configuration. It's close.

On the flop I would not raise. You are in position to v1 and I think you can get all the money in by the river. By going like 2/3 -3/4 pot on turn and jamming rivet. No need to set the alarm bells off for villain yet. Let him think his AA or AK is good.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-25-2024 , 08:29 AM
Thought this was a good PAHWM due to the number of different inflection points that took place.

Table Dynamics - 1/2 300 Max, NH poker room, place is relatively busy, H has been here for about 2 hours and has gotten his max buy in to about 750 and covers all. Table was super tight at first, but the older timers have left and there are two droolers who have been punting off over the past hour or so (opening with T4o, calling 3bets with J5o, folding KKs to a single bet on a 862 board literally the dream opponents)

H is a 30ish white guy who has been splashing around and playing a very aggressive style prob 3 bet 8-10 times pf which is a lot at this venue/stakes, raised river bets 2x with bluffs and got them through and has shown. Has a competent, but aggressive image, covers all

V1 - another youngish 30 year old, has about 500 and has played a relatively passive, but tight range.

v2 - complete unknown, just sat down, with only 100


H is UTG and looks down at two red Jacks and has the two droolers to his right and just limps, with the plans to l/rr.

V2 in MP opens to 10, V1 in the BB 3b to 40, H? - thoughts on the UTG play the first time?




H realizes that his JJ can't be in good shape against V1's range and really has no idea what V2 has but makes the call (I'd 100% fold if V2 jams, and V1 reraises/I'd also lean very close to folding if V2 jammed, and V1 called the 100)

OTTH

Flop (120ish)
KsJc9h


We obviously are very pleased we flopped a set. V1 leads for 30, H?

H like many others mentioned, believe that if H just calls, V2 will jam and H can reopen the action/evaluate what V1 does. With that said, H just calls, V2 for whatever reason just calls....


Turn (210ish)
KsJc9h6s

V1 leads out for 60, H? (while H is debating, V2 goes all in for less OOT)
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-25-2024 , 08:51 AM
I think you have to raise now to get a little money in the pot. I don't know what V1 is doing with those little bets, but you will not get his stack on the river if you just call. Maybe go to $150?

I hope V1 is not "trapping." That would suck
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-25-2024 , 06:18 PM
150 is ok. We want to get the pot to the point where a villain goes, "can't fold now, I'm pot committed."
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-26-2024 , 07:48 AM
H ends up raising to 165, V tank folds and says he is folding AA, and H wins against V2's QQ.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-26-2024 , 08:36 AM
Nobody who says they are folding AA and is actually folding AA doesn't show.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote
03-26-2024 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Nobody who says they are folding AA and is actually folding AA doesn't show.
This is also known as the fourth law of live poker.
PAHWM - JJ UTG Quote

      
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