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PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL

11-03-2011 , 01:16 PM
First post in a long time, first PAHWM post. I've asked several friends for their input in the hand and have gotten a few different responses. Interested to hear what more people think.

First hand at the table. Stacks are 150bb deep effective. Villain is a youngish guy with heaps at the table, like 350bb. No history with him so image doesn't matter.

Villain limps for $2 from UTG+2. Hero raises to $10 from UTG+3 with AQ. Folds back to villain, who calls.

We take the flop HU, which falls Q9T.

Villain leads $20 into pot of ~$23. Hero...?
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:19 PM
Calls; no value in raising and calling SLIGHTLY underreps our hand. Cool that we have the backdoor heart draw. No need to overplay our hand on scary board, lets keep our range wide and let villain donk with worse. If you raise and he calls this is a baaaad situation
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:32 PM
I'd call mainly because I want him to bet again.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:38 PM
No reason to do anything but call here and get more information when the turn comes out. I think villain's tend to lead here with hands that they want to get in on the flop because they want to protectect, or because they have a big draw and think that b/3b is better than C/R. You still beat the big draws/combo draws on the flop, but don't want to get committed here, so call this bet in position and let's see a turn. By raising, you pretty much get all worse made hands to fold, and only get called, shoved on with hands that have great equity vs. your hand.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:40 PM
call. raises will almost always be called only by better hands. i'm putting villain on something like J8 , 9T, Q9 QT
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque
call. raises will almost always be called only by better hands. i'm putting villain on something like J8 , 9T, Q9 QT
If you put him on just these hands then shouldnt you fold?

I think villain has QJ, KQ in his range along with a ton of huge draws along with your range.

Also, this is the easiest, simpliest standard flat OTF ever. Any other play is a huge leak
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque
call. raises will almost always be called only by better hands. i'm putting villain on something like J8 , 9T, Q9 QT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
If you put him on just these hands then shouldnt you fold?

I think villain has QJ, KQ in his range along with a ton of huge draws along with your range.

Also, this is the easiest, simpliest standard flat OTF ever. Any other play is a huge leak

Monsters in the thread
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:51 PM
I'd raise a bit more pf to like $12 but it's not a huge deal but something to keep in mind.

On flop, calling is the best of our options. Folding is too weak since we can be ahead and raising is too risky because even though our raise can reasonably be top set and/or mid set, our opponent can reasonable have mid-set/bottom-set/KJ/JhTh/KhTh where he will 3bet our raise at will (and if villain is a monkey lag, could bet/3bet with QJ/JT/J9).

Also, note, to a good hand reader when we call on the flop, our hand is really skewed to 1 pair hands (AQ/KK/AA/JJ) or an oesd (AJ/JJ). Although.. we might just flat the flop with KhTh/AhTh, however that's only 2 combos compared to the many of above.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yf4e10
First post in a long time, first PAHWM post. I've asked several friends for their input in the hand and have gotten a few different responses. Interested to hear what more people think.

First hand at the table. Stacks are 150bb deep effective. Villain is a youngish guy with heaps at the table, like 350bb. No history with him so image doesn't matter.

Villain limps for $2 from UTG+2. Hero raises to $10 from UTG+3 with AQ. Folds back to villain, who calls.

We take the flop HU, which falls Q9T.

Villain leads $20 into pot of ~$23. Hero...?

Hero calls $20. Pot is now ~$63.

Turn comes 3, making board Q9T3.

Villain checks. Hero...?
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:56 PM
Well I think its safe to say there are very few flushes in villains perceived range. With that being said, no need to pot this turn as it almost turns our hand into a bluff. If we bet too much, villain folds hands we beat I think. I think a check isn't terrible and I would consider being a showdown monkey. However, betting here is probably a good idea since villain will rarely be c/raising us. I would be sick if he raised us off our hand; but given the situation its unlikely.

Also, checking the turn isnt terrible either because the pot sized flop bet made the pot already medium sized.

So I vote to bet $30 or check behind call blank river bets by villain.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:56 PM
Check. I thought about betting small like $25, but then I thought whats the point of that? I dont wanna get raised really. For me, Im happy to see the river for nothing here.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeDro Wilson
Check
Why? If the plan on the flop was to flat in order to get another bet out of him, why check now? If you thought we were ahead on the flop, are you checking here to let him hit something? The board still seems pretty dangerous to do this, even with the NFD. Lots of conceivable two pairs and straights can be completed on the river.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeDro Wilson
Check. I thought about betting small like $25, but then I thought whats the point of that? I dont wanna get raised really. For me, Im happy to see the river for nothing here.
While I don't disagree with you; what looking at this board, what are the chances villain actually turned a flush? How often are we really getting c/raised OTT?
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yf4e10
Why? If the plan on the flop was to flat in order to get another bet out of him, why check now? If you thought we were ahead on the flop, are you checking here to let him hit something? The board still seems pretty dangerous to do this, even with the NFD. Lots of conceivable two pairs and straights can be completed on the river.
Lots of conceivable 2 pairs and straights dont even need the river. If he bets the turn I dont think its terrible at all for me to call especially now that the 3rd heart came. I wanted him to bet again after the flop, but he didnt and thats still ok with me, I still only have 1 pair on an already scary board, so Im fine to see the river. If he's drawing still, he is def not folding so Im not sure why id wanna build a huge pot in this spot when I definitely could already be behind.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:08 PM
^^ I can live with this.... Checking is totally cool with me; betting $30 is another option but getting c/raised would be sick (though unlikely)

We are only 25% against top 2 pair here and 36% against bottom 2; more reason to check behind since villain probably c/calls 2 pair anyways and we wouldnt know where he stands.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:14 PM
Right, I guess what Im tryin to say is that I could bet 25-30 on the turn and he MIGHT not raise, but really why risk it in this spot? Seems silly to turn what may be a winner into a decision where Im a) having to fold on the turn to a raise or b)(if I bet the turn and he calls) having to call a now larger river donk by him (potentially)

He still may donk river, but unless its an overbet, I can make my decision easier because the pot isnt as big
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:16 PM
I predict hero bets $35 and gets raised to $90 OTT or he bets $35, villain calls and donks a blank river, hence why this is a pahwm =)
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
I predict hero bets $35 and gets raised to $90 OTT or he bets $35, villain calls and donks a blank river, hence why this is a pahwm =)
You're too good.

Hero bets $45 OTT, expecting a raise almost never, expecting to currently be ahead, and in order to set up a valuable, good-sized river bet in the case of a good card falling. The bet also expects the river to be checked to me in the case of a call, after which I can bet for value or check behind.

Villain calls the bet quickly. Pot is now ~$155.

River falls 9. Villain leads $100 after a few moments of playing with chips. Hero...?
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:21 PM
Folds; villain has a fullhouse
Easy fold at that... Oh, and turn bet is much too large, I think you know that looking back.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
Folds; villain has a fullhouse
Easy fold at that... Oh, and turn bet is much too large, I think you know that looking back.
c/c ott seems pretty bad with two pair, no?
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:25 PM
EZ fold now, this is a great board for him to be on total air though. Im curious as to why you thought he would check the river to you if he called your turn bet. I would assume the opposite.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:27 PM
Villain probably wants to be a showdown monkey with 2 pair given the scary texture; I dont think c/call is pretty bad at all. Probably standard for most 1/2 players. Most of his range now is boats or medium flushes. Don't think he turns KQ, QJ into a bluff, in fact, he may fold that hand due to ur turn sizing! This is why I think he has like 0 air here
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:36 PM
Well I def am not saying he does have air.

If I see a PF raiser I can put him on some overs. Then the flop comes super drawy (actually already completes straights) and I bet it because I think he's got some overs and missed. He calls, but for whatever reason I think he's not strong. Turn comes and completes flush draws and he bets pretty big, but my plan all along is to get him off his overs by the end of the hand. I call his turn bet. River is perfect and now we have straights flushes and houses. Obviously I cant check so I bet $100 of this house money off my huge "heap"to see if I can take it down.

Im just sayin' ..
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:39 PM
checking turn, folding river.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote
11-03-2011 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeDro Wilson
Well I def am not saying he does have air.

If I see a PF raiser I can put him on some overs. Then the flop comes super drawy (actually already completes straights) and I bet it because I think he's got some overs and missed. He calls, but for whatever reason I think he's not strong. Turn comes and completes flush draws and he bets pretty big, but my plan all along is to get him off his overs by the end of the hand. I call his turn bet. River is perfect and now we have straights flushes and houses. Obviously I cant check so I bet $100 of this house money off my huge "heap"to see if I can take it down.

Im just sayin' ..
Just doesnt happen enough for villains to take this line often; let alone the tough price to call.
PAHWM: Interesting villain line/postflop decisions at 1/2NL Quote

      
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