Hey all I know I played this hand badly and I think I know how to fix it but I want feedback to make sure. It was a while ago so I don't remember stack sizes exactly but approximately and I don't think it changes decision making too much

1/3 nl 9 handed

V1 (250ish) : 40ish old white guy. We have been at the table for 2 hours and I have been friendly chatting with him. Classic 1/3 fish limping probably 50% of hands rarely raising preflop. Sticky postflop will chase draws with bad odds and make bad calls with weak pairs because his range is just way too wide from preflop

V2 (300): 20s asian guy newer to the table and hasn't played a hand for a 30 mins so I'm ranging him as tight good player. I think I was overly scared of him in the play of this hand

H(300). 24 white guy I try to play TAG but probably like all of us open a little more than I should. Only coming in for raise preflop and playing aggressively postflop

preflop: v1 limps UTG I make it 15 in HJ with black JJ CO calls behind

flop 45: 8910

The fishy guy leads for 15. I don't think I have seen him lead to PFR yet in the couple hours we have played together.

Hero?

I may go 20-25 pre but $15 is fine. Think im calling this. Dont wanna get too crazy but also cant fold an overpair and straight flush draw

I'm going crazy. Overpair and SFD is the frigging nuts. Pot-sized raise, imo.

I would raise, something $60-$80. You have a monster draw and crush lots of V1's range. And there are a lot of hands V2 could have that you don't want sticking around cheaply.

There are possible hands you are in trouble against but that's just a cooler.

Yeah i was wrong. Its a raise spot for sure

Should never be sitting to the right of a non-short player that we're scared of. Get out of this seat, imo.

With the fish's effective stack I probably raise more preflop to $25 to have an more comfortable stackoff postflop with an overpair.

I probably just call the donk and evaluate what happens. I don't feel committed yet against the deeper guy behind me on this type of board and thus don't want to be shovelling in chips yet.

ETA: Whoops, didn't realize we have a fairly decent draw. I'm fine with raising, although if doing so I think we should raise an amount to just get the rest in on the turn. So I'd probably go $80ish.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Raise size pre is fine and good. Now raise the flop and be prepared to gii. If he flopped the nut flush, it's almost a cooler. We don't need V2 hanging around with a straight or some other draw that beats us.

Seems like we have a consensus raise spot.

I decided to flat because I hadn't seen him lead yet. At the time I felt that the board is dynamic so we can reevaluate what he does on the turn card which will change the hand a lot depending on what it is. I will admit after the fact there was some MUBS in my head about flopped higher flush and hating either folding to or calling a flop jam. I definitely feel uncomfortable on super wet boards and this is about as wet as it gets.

the hand and my next action:

preflop: v1 limps UTG I make it 15 in HJ with black JJ CO calls behind

flop 45: 8910

The fishy guy leads for 15. I don't think I have seen him lead to PFR yet in the couple hours we have played together.

I call and cutoff calls behind

Turn (90): 4x UTG bets 15 again

Hero?

Blank, so same answer. Raise to 50

Such a small bet. I probably raise now to get rid of V2 and build a pot for when we bink a straight flush

Raise is even more obvious on turn. With the first bet I would have some concern villain is underbetting a strong hand. When he bets the same thing on the turn it's far more likely he is setting a price with a draw. Against that you want to get as much in the pot as possible now. If he is playing that passively he is likely to check/fold the river if he misses.

It would also be good to get V2 out of the pot in case he a draw to beat you or chop.

I basically always raise same bets OTT, and print money doing it. This is a good merged spot for it that balances our air but also loves a fold.

Yeah. Pretty much a dream spot 100 deep. I would raise to $70 I think and jam pretty much every turn.

I decided to flat again somehow even though I agree the same bet on turn is almost always weak. In my head I guess I had labeled this CO as tight and was not liking that he had position on me and had called flop and still afraid to raise because of the flush possibility from him behind.

the hand and my next action:

preflop: v1 limps UTG I make it 15 in HJ with black JJ CO calls behind

flop 45: 8910sss

The fishy guy leads for 15. I don't think I have seen him lead to PFR yet in the couple hours we have played together.

I call and cutoff calls behind

Turn (90): 4x UTG bets 15 call call

River (135) 7x utg bets 40

Hero?[/QUOTE]

just call what the heck

you have like the 12th nuts dont raise. you also have a straight and this guys betting real small call it off

Its not even close to the 12th nuts, if we consider each A-high (As2s, As3s, etc.) flush separately. Still, not folding for that price. There should be enough MUBSy played 2p, etc. in his range to make it a call.

Raise flop, raise turn, but as played this is a pretty obvious call. You made your straight. All flushes are still beating you, as is JQ.

As played, just call.

Am I the only one who wants to consider a fold on the river? Is this how most middle aged white guys who are just playing loosely to hit a hand play their two pear / set? By bet/bet/betting (into 2 opponents on the river no less) on a 3-to-a-flush 4-to-a-straight board? Plus we still have the guy behind us to deal with on top of all that.

Gfoldstooeasily,IguessG

No, it's not 2p/set very often, even with that tentative betsizing (small flush more likely, imo), but we only have to be good 18.6% of the time to call. V2 is almost always on a draw AP, and we look like we are. so 1) we don't have to worry about V2 much, and 2) V1 is more likely to bet his weak made hands.

Easy call, even though we lose most of the time, imo.

I know the 18.6% of the time is enticing, but the question is if we are ever good even that much given this action. Course, I come from Limit, where bet/folding the river (where we're often getting ~12:1 to make the final call) is completely standard (so perhaps I'm just used to making folds in spite of getting stoopid good odds).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I now think he’s very weak and would not use such small sizing with a flush. So obviously this supports I should have raised on the turn but I think he will call a small raise with a 6 or 2 pair. I usually make pot sized raises and tried to exploitively raise small against a fish. (I would not do this against someone I thought was even a little bit off a thinking player)

the hand and my next action:

preflop: v1 limps UTG I make it 15 in HJ with black JJ CO calls behind

flop 45: 8910sss

The fishy guy leads for 15. I don't think I have seen him lead to PFR yet in the couple hours we have played together.

I call and cutoff calls behind

Turn (90): 4x UTG bets 15 call call

River (135) 7x utg bets 40 I 100

He shoves for 220 total

Hero?

Gross. Just flat the river. Ugh.

For $120 more, you can't really fold -- well, I guess you could, but I wouldn't. Just sigh call, although at best you are probably chopping.

A 3bet on the river is the nuts. I guess in this case it can't be the mortal nuts since we hold the straight flush card, but it's like Axss 99% of the time / misread hand 1% of the time. So easy fold to the raise.

Griverdecisionisbetweenafoldversusacall,notacallve rsusaraise,imoG