Their could be an argument made for getting both players to call and or someone to bluff raise. Instead of betting super huge and no bluff raise and one caller.

We are just trying to make up for value missed ott

inb4 CO raises with AJ!

Anyway yeah I think a river value bet is definitely way better than checking, and for the reasons venice and instinct posted a full PSB is probably best.

That being said, what do we do if CO shoves? It'd be about 1000 to win about 2200, but what would we beat aside from crazy spazzy missed flush draw blow ups? I guess we're bet 400 / folding in that case? Bleh that would suck but I suppose betting that big and getting raised ensures we are beat, whereas betting 250 and getting raised might still be a move since our line looks weaker. Idk.

Well at this point it's a bet/call because no one is checking a set on the turn, especially not the guy who has chips.

On the subject of me having "god mode" engaged, again I checked because I felt MP2 would bet with a much wider range than he would call with but I think the worst part about this plan is that if MP2 bets, the CO calls I really can't raise very comfortably because of the absolute weakness of my hand although I have a very strong hand against their ranges.

Yeah I feel the river is a bet/call, I represent basically nothing here and CO knows I am capable of basically anything but the only hand he is probably raising on the river is like Jh8h.

I felt any hand calling 175 is willing to call more so...

Hero bets 250.

Just drop a giant chip bomb and get called by bluff catchers.

ETA Oops, bit late to the party.

I still think you can go a bit bigger, closer to pot.

Bet 190 ott get 380 bet 250 OTR get 250, which one makes more money? The way the hand played out, I would like to think you are not planning ahead otf the best way to extract money.

I already did, I told him it was to extract value, if he can add he can surely figure out what is more profitable. Keeping the low content here, not trying to derail his thread and tell him he does not think as well as he thinks he does.

Was the turn check, a definite mistake? We haven't got to showdown yet. I mean, I'm not certain 11t could've extracted three whole, whopping streets of value. Isn't there a chance both Villains are folding to a large bet on the turn?

I'm planning on doing a bunch of mathamagic tonight to calculate the difference in EV vs their ranges

The only time my line is really bad is if they both have FD's which is statistically unlikely

The turn is pretty terrible, we have to extract value from drawing hands/weaker hands.

As played OTR, anything less than 380 is criminal, it is what we expected to get ott if both called, but OTR we just made a better hand than we could have hoped for, now it goes to the what does v call 100% of the time compared to 50%. V probably calls about 400 50%, considering the taken line because it looks bluffy and severely under repped + villain will never be coming over the top w worse

So in the end mp2 snap folded and co tanked and tanked and finally folded saying he wish he had the balls to call with an 8. I can only assume that they both had flush draws which is easily the worst possible event.

I'm on my phone and can't bust out the math I wanted but my entire thinking was that I can only get one street of value either way but by checking I might be able to take advantage of mp2 who would very his 14 combos of a9/at (assuming he raises all of his axhh on the flop).

We are 95/5 vs a pair and 85/15 vs a fd and 80/20 vs the two where I only get one street of value from the two players combined except for the small % if time they both have fds and I figured an would call a larger bet on the river than a fd would on the turn but when combined with when mp2 jams I think it is about a push.

I like your river sizing. Most here watch too many pros. Vs pros I'm betting $400, the bet is so polarizing. In the end you missed played the turn. They both has flush draws.

I wish I had posted this earlier to counter all of the "fold pre" and "give up on turn vs deep V" people.

I've read the whole thread and think that, given your reads, my default line would have been to check raise the turn big when MP shorty bets a worse Ace and CO calls. A couple reasons come to mind: 1) CO likely has a draw and a CR charges him the max to see the river - he likely folds after putting in another big bet from calling MP. 2) HE FOLDS BETTER HANDS!

If we CR the turn then what can CO call us with? Sets only if he is decent. Our bet would look like a very strong hand and get folds from AQ and AK, heck, maybe even two pair. All draws would have called another bet and then be forced to fold to our CR since (and I think a lot of people haven't realized this) CO likely doesn't want to play a super huge and deep pot against us!

Everyone keeps saying how deep we are and to pot control, but this guy likely doesn't play $1k pots every day and would shy away from playing one here. If we are just going to shy away from a big pot since we have been winning and are deep then we should have left the table a while ago once we got over whatever amount we aren't comfortable losing in one hand - and gone to play limit or 1/2 or a different casino if possible.

I like the CR line best, but I would also just keep barreling turn the rest of the time since we are still ahead of both players enough to bet again. C/R or B/F is my preference, I'm almost never C/Fing here without super solid reads or a huge bet/raise by CO.

Even though you weren't planning on it, it sucks that the CR line wouldn't have worked anyway since the turn checked through.

River bet is fine even though the option of checking or betting small to induce a bluff would probably be what I would have done after missing my CR/bet on the turn.

tbh after we misplay the turn, I think we have to check the river.

I was planning on chr the turn if mp bet and co folded but I was going to wait to see bet size and soul read if mp bet a word amount and co called where a shop would have been an over bet

lol tbh i think that is the worst idea ever