What is villain floating for 30-40% PSB that he's folding for 50-60%? Pretty sure his calling range is inelastic so there's no need to bet more than the minimum.

I'm Cool w this. However I think we may need 2 barrels to really sell it. And I think 50-60 otf + 3/4 pot on turn sells a better story to a thinking villain.


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I mean we're not really selling anything, we're mostly folding out hands that we beat anyway at this point. I think it's a good line to bet small with most of our range, and yes, work in some multi street bluffs. Being IP and having some okay equity, I think this hand is better played as a check back on turns.

There will be some players where we can profitable 3 barrels with entire non SD range though.

Might be impossible to articulate but humor me if you can. What types of players and what types of run outs are you 3 barreling?

I don't have any info on how villain plays in 3! Pots so what I'm trying to find out is what turns would you be betting again and what types of rivers would you be 3 barreling in spots similar to this.

Also next action:

Hero bets 155, v calls. Turn is an A (still rainbow). V checks, hero?

If you're not sure, I probably wouldn't do it.

Basically you have to be sure they have no sets in their c/c range, so their entire range is filled with mid pairs, all of which will fold by river (especially good if you can discount JJ QQ even TT from the way/speed they called pre, although tbh JJ TT is a common target for 3 barrelling).

Most people aren't prime targets for this but occasionally you just know you're playing someone who's ready to make the "disciplined laydown" with one pair.

Check back.

Call most rivers or bet small if checked to.

Chalk this one up to leaping before you look.

A is as Yahtzee as your hand gets. I'm still betting here. 1/2 pot it


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We have SDV now. I see no need to turn it in to a bluff. I check back turn.

I xb

Yea I am in check back campb


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for someone who frequently opens in late position, they just don't get dealt premium hands anywhere near that frequency, so we have to assume that's what his range is.

if Snowie was otb with A8o in this same situation, a wide late 3x opener with a fit or fold in between, she should be thinking about a 3bet as well.

We're not 3betting for value here.

pretty much this. Use your position to pot control, get to showdown.

+1. I was going to type something similar, with less pizzazz.

What's the point of betting the flop if we aren't going to barrel. For the most part I think he folds worse hands (suited broadway hands, etc.) and likely calls at least once with better (66+).

Check back turn. Bet river if checked to. Hardest spot is if he bets river. Likely call a river bet.

Snowie is an AI/solver.

Also, you ASSUMED that's what his range is, based on no evidence whatsoever. OP never said that was his range. You yourself assumed his description meant any two broadway. What does "frequently" mean anyway? Entirely subjective.

Secondly, even if assumed range has QJ+ KT+ A8o is probably still a fold (albeit not awful if 3bet, probably close), depending on the rest of the distribution and skill edge.

Flop is often a ck on 245r but can be bet as well obv. Ck flop does set up some more believable value lines and given only 150bb deep in a 3b pot, that isn't a bad thing considering you didn't get the immediate fold from your squeeze (you needed to raise more PF)

Anyways, once flop goes b-c, Ax turn is way more often a bet for hero for a number of reasons that should be obvious.

Just about the worst thing you could do here is bet flop, then ck this turn, with a plan on call/ck riv - not against a competent/range aware V. Most riv donks V has should be large in size and polarized in range, he ain't value merging or bluffing 99 i.e. when hero cks Ax turn bc 99 and such are wawb hero's turn ck-back range, against real players, you're capping yourself at one pair hands and no longer have enough bluffs/strong hands otr.
If hero had bet Ax like "he's supposed to" once betting flop, he would be perceived to have more hands now, making things far tougher for OOP Vs range.

tl:dr - you're fooling no one ck this turn once betting flop and are doing V a favor allowing him to get to SD more easily oop.

Leaping before I look? You think I should not be 3! when i know his range is wide even though i dont know exactly how he will play oop in 3! pots?

Looking back I actually started thinking that a flop check might be better than a cbet as well because I didnt think he would be folding much of his 3! calling range pre, so cbetting otf is probably a mistake without some type of multiple barreling plan that Sol was alluding to. I dont think 3! bigger pre is good or makes much of a difference. If anything I was thinking going smaller probably like 110 is better.

Add to my point, if our spot really is "too good to not 3bet" with A8o, villain should probably 4bet get in just about every pair or most of them, which, let's face it, runs against all common sense.

his description is he defends blinds too much (VPIP's OOP too often: Leak) so I don't think he's good enough to start 4betting us thinking we're light. He should have no reason to think we are at this point (another reason to cbet).

If he was a good winning player, I would not include A8o at the bottom of my 3betting range in position.

tbh OP's description of him makes me as wary of OP's skill level as I am of the villain. Lots of weak regs play too right in the bb. OP also specifically said he can't tell if villain was good or not. You're just assuming he's a fish because you hear fish VPIP OOP a lot. Seems like assuming too much.

Calling closing action with odds is not the same thing as opening too light, and also like I said, even if he opens QJo that doesn't mean A8o is profitable to 3bet against range wise.

QJo is a better hand than A8o for one, lol. We have 42% equity vs a range of QJo+, and 45% against JTo. Yes we have position, but we can also get 4bet, and we can get action from other players too. A8o also doesn't have good playability.

You need a clear skill edge, live reads, and/or much weaker opening range for this to be a solid 3bet.

Don't you think these are adjustments we should make after we have some type of read on V's tendencies? Since we are effectively readless here I think we are better off bluff catching river or value betting ourself.

If we had a hand like AK/AQ or KQ I would be on board with double barreling the turn as we would have roughly 60/40 value combos to bluffs and still have enough Ax hands we can get value from. When figuring out how to exploit V in the future, I want to have a hand that is very strong (AK) or worthless (KQ/KJ) in this spot.

A8 is more SDV to me than punish-readless-V-for-3-streets type of hand. He can bet large with a polarized range all he wants on the river, I'll still be calling.

Fold > 3bet > call

FWIW I think V turning 77-99 into a bluff on the river is the right play, especially if he's not planning on calling a bet. It prevents him from getting bluffed by our air (which should have double barreled) and he can fold out 18-30 combos of PP's of ours that aren't going to call a large river bet since V has plenty of AK/AQ flop floats.