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PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG.

02-29-2012 , 12:31 PM
Villain is a young white guy who plays poker for a living, he is agressive, with big ego, but knows better not to mess with a reg Hero, while there is fish at the table. Is an overall winner, and is quite quite good. He is adjusting his game constantly, I don't have rock sold betting reads on him.

Table is 4 handed. SB Whale, BB Fish, Straddle Villain, BU Hero with 99.

Effective stacks: $600

Hero [$600] raises $16.
Blinds fold.
Villain [$600] 3bets $45. I don't think he is 3beting light here, oop and with fish out of the hand. He might have squeezed should some one from the blinds have called. He has a reasonable 3b range here.
Hero [$600] ..?

Any important information missing?
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 12:52 PM
I don't really have a problem with any option here. You can peel this in position, 4 bet if u think he can 3 bet lightish, or you can fold and pick your spots against the 2 crappy players. If this is his first 3 bet, I don't mind a 4 bet since I prefer 4 betting as a bluff/semi-bluff in the first hand as opposed to the 2nd or 3rd. Either way, I'm not gonna feel bad about any option here an prob in this order: 4 bet>fold>call
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 01:06 PM
I'm folding ainec...

Why are we 4-betting? We're turning a decent hand into a bluff. And we're going to hate the flop 75%+ of the time if we're called, and the pot will be bloated. You don't think he's squeezing here, so how do we fare against his 3-bet value range of TT+, AQ,AK,AJ(?)?, not great. $45 is too much to setmine as well, and calling for the overpair doesn't sound appealing either.

Then again, I'm sure others will disagree, but I just don't see how 4-betting here is EV+. There will be better spots I presume. If he's not 3-betting light, then this should be a turbo muck. We're way behind his value range, and we won't even know necessarily where we stand. Why mess with a good reg?
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 01:11 PM
4 betting is obv bad if we assume villain is only doing it for value. Based on the OP, I'm assuming that's not the case.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgidd8
4 betting is obv bad if we assume villain is only doing it for value. Based on the OP, I'm assuming that's not the case.

Quote:
Villain [$600] 3bets $45. I don't think he is 3beting light here, oop and with fish out of the hand. He might have squeezed should some one from the blinds have called. He has a reasonable 3b range here.
Um..
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 01:27 PM
If I'm reading this right it is a 4 handed table here. Hand values go up I don't think you can raise 99 on the button then fold to a thinking lag here. 99 is stronger than you think in this instance. 4-betting would just turn it into a bluff so there is no point in this. Add to this we have a good image and will have position on villain still fairly deep for the rest of the hand makes this a call.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 02:18 PM
Call

Its only 29 more and you have position on him

Never fold given eff stacks
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc August
Call

Its only 29 more and you have position on him

Never fold given eff stacks
^^this
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 02:21 PM
can't see anything other than calling
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 02:24 PM
Easy call. You have position and I believe you are still getting the right price to setmine with effective stacks being $600 each (10 to 1 to 3bet raise size)...But I think you don't necessarily have to try to setmine here...I definitely think you can play this hand well postflop.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 02:52 PM
Is this 2/5 or 1/2?

No real options other than calling, flop please.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro
Any important information missing?
Just wondering if this is 1/2 or 2/5, i guess has to be 1/2 as a straddle in 2/5 would make it 10 and you'd have to raise at least 20.

But like someone said before doesn't players hand ranges open especially 4-handed. Now if he is a lag isn't he at least 3 betting 77+, AK-AJ, A10s, KQ, maybe KJ and isnt he thinking your range to open a pot is wide especially from the button 4-handed?

I dont see how we can fold 99 in 1.2 300 BB deep. I know 60 is a large 3 bet but there a strong chance we have him beat and there is a great chance he will fire at any flop that comes out.

I mean he is a lag, we are playing 4 handed and we are in postion. I cant get away from 99 here.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 03:12 PM
Grunching …

4-handed, think I’d 4-bet. Folding is fine based on your read, but we are probably ahead of his range most of the time.

Calling makes the flop a difficult decision b/c: 1) V will be first to act; 2) over cards more likely than not. You could try and make a play OTF. I’d 4-bet PF rather than counting on a favorable flop to make a move. You are facing an opponent who obviously has very good post-flop skills.

I assume this is $1-$2 or $1-$3.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 03:26 PM
If this had been a full ring game, I'd say automuck. Why mess with a player who's good, and for whom you don't have any solid read? Here, it's four-way, and that means "trouble" hands and what would normally be garbage hands go up in value, and his resteal range is likely to be pretty wide here. Pocket nines beat a lot of the hands he'd likely be playing for a resteal.

Given that, it's a definite call. See how the hand develops on the flop, but do it carefully. With a "whale" in there who's got plenty of chips left, you don't want to stack off against a good player and miss out on capitalizing from the whale's presence.

As for the "big ego", how certain are you that this isn't an act calculated to put the opposition on tilt? I'd tend to disregard, and not let that influence a decision to call just because he might be a smart-@55. It's always possible he isn't.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 03:55 PM
Snap call and see a flop, float whatever flops and fire the turn if he checks
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:07 PM
Villain is a young white guy who plays poker for a living, he is agressive, with big ego, but knows better not to mess with a reg Hero, while there is fish at the table. Is an overall winner, and is quite quite good. He is adjusting his game constantly, I don't have rock sold betting reads on him.

Table is 4 handed $1/2. SB Whale, BB Fish, Straddle Villain, BU Hero with 99.

Effective stacks: $600

Hero [$600] raises $16.
Blinds fold.
Villain [$600] 3bets $45. I don't think he is 3beting light here, oop and with fish out of the hand. He might have squeezed should some one from the blinds have called. He has a reasonable 3b range here.
Hero [$600] calls $29 more.
Flop:
235
Pot:$90.

Villain [$555] checks.
Hero [$555] ..?

By saying he has a reasonable range, I mean he has a reasonable range for a 4 handed play, like he is not playing 74, K8 or 22 here.

I'm really confused by his check on the flop, thought. Any interpretation?
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:16 PM
check behind, call a turn bet

He is likely going for a ch/r or something and could very well be ch/ring with a worst hand
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro
I'm really confused by his check on the flop, thought. Any interpretation?
Not very confusing: you got in the last raise, and he's checking to the raiser. If your guy was a fit 'r' fold player (and it doesn't look like he is) then c/bet and take it away. Given that you've already described him as one who doesn't fit that profile, this looks like a trap, and I would be inclined to check it back, ruin his c/r, and take the freebie. If you have the best hand at this point, giving him a free card on that flop isn't likely to complete any draws, and your main risk is letting an overcard pair him up.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:28 PM
Check behind, call turn that is not a A or K then fold river if he bets both, check behind if he checks river. I think is range here is AA/KK/over cards. I think he bets over-pairs less than KK. AA/KK he also bets sometimes checks sometimes so can be somewhat discounted.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsy
Check behind, call turn that is not a A or K then fold river if he bets both, check behind if he checks river. I think is range here is AA/KK/over cards. I think he bets over-pairs less than KK. AA/KK he also bets sometimes checks sometimes so can be somewhat discounted.
If he checks a blank turn (9 or something) you are betting right?
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:34 PM
Preflop: It's close for me but I fold preflop. We're pretty much setmining @150BB deep (straddled) which doesn't work great in a 3bet pot tho the odds are close (I like 20:1) and we have position of course. I assume 99% we face a cbet and what flop do we like?

Flop: So I'm wrong (again/LOL). We like this flop and he didn't cbet. But I'm worried, a LAG will almost always bet if he missed here so his check is dangerous IMO. A standard move here is to bet after he checks(against a "normal" villain) but here I check back. We have to be WA/WB here, he has 6 outs w/2 non-paired overs. Check back controls pot size and allows him to spew on turn if he has AK and a T or whatever comes on turn-we still have position.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubimon
Not very confusing: you got in the last raise, and he's checking to the raiser.
You've read the OP, right? He was the raiser.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crsseyed
Preflop: It's close for me but I fold preflop. We're pretty much setmining @150BB deep (straddled) which doesn't work great in a 3bet pot tho the odds are close (I like 20:1) and we have position of course. I assume 99% we face a cbet and what flop do we like?

Flop: So I'm wrong (again/LOL). We like this flop and he didn't cbet. But I'm worried, a LAG will almost always bet if he missed here so his check is dangerous IMO. A standard move here is to bet after he checks(against a "normal" villain) but here I check back. We have to be WA/WB here, he has 6 outs w/2 non-paired overs. Check back controls pot size and allows him to spew on turn if he has AK and a T or whatever comes on turn-we still have position.
This is not WA/WB. How many outs does AK have against us?

If he checks turn again sure, I will stab it to get him to FPS with overs if the turn is not an A or a K.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:42 PM
Folding PF here is ****ing god awful and anybody who does it should just mail me their bankroll
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote
02-29-2012 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubimon
Not very confusing: you got in the last raise, and he's checking to the raiser. If your guy was a fit 'r' fold player (and it doesn't look like he is) then c/bet and take it away. Given that you've already described him as one who doesn't fit that profile, this looks like a trap, and I would be inclined to check it back, ruin his c/r, and take the freebie. If you have the best hand at this point, giving him a free card on that flop isn't likely to complete any draws, and your main risk is letting an overcard pair him up.
V is the preflop raiser (well 3-bettor). Hero called.
PAHWM: 99 OTB vs. LAG. Quote

      
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