PAHWM 1/3 - 98o Wide Ranges

1/3€ Spain - Saturday arround 16:00h

Hero: BTN (350€) - I was playing Solid. Poker tables opens at 14:00h and I was there since the beginning. Have played more than 7 hands. Was something like 15/10 VPIP/PFR.
On the last two hands I Cbet and had to fold to Flop Raise. One IP and other OOP.

V1: BB (covers me) - 2/5 REG 30-35yrs woman. Have seen her before, but never played together. Knows everybody and I can spot alot of respect from other players and croupiers in the room.
Was playing really Tight for about 1:30h. 4 or 5 hands raising 2-3 of them. The first hand she played she lost 300€ vs a 2/5rec (seens to have history with the man), overbet shoving TT at a double flushdraw TURN with a T OTF). The man called with a turned straight and the river was clean to him.
Rebuy for table max 500€

I know she knows what happens on the table.
Was waiting for the 2/5 table to open and quite anxious to that (“I’ll go if we are 4 handed”).

V2: HJ (less than 200€) - Whale. Loose Passive Tipical spanish cassino 40yrs. man. Limps alot, sizing tells, etc. The entire package.

V3: SB (covers everybody. +600€) - the 2/5 rec I mentioned before. Was playing Tight Passive. Also waiting for the 2/5 table to open. Had his tablet opened. He was trully just waiting.

OTTH:

Hero 9d8s BTN 350€

V3 SB 1€, V1 BB 3€, Folds to V2 HJ Limps, Hero BTN ?

$18 seems fine OTB with a marginal hand IP

Raise > limping > fold but there isn't a huge difference. It isn't clear from your description but if the last two hands you lost where recently then folding might be best. You don't have a huge hand but it should be worth getting heads up with the whale.

Raise to whatever is the table standard. Something around 15€ seems about right but I have no idea how the games there size things preflop.

The std raise would be in between 12-18$.
15$ seens right. So as 18$.

I was really in doubt on what to do.
My hand seens good enough to play IP, but not good enough to Raise. (V1) BB could 3Bet lighter if she spotted that I’m trying to ISO the fish wider OTB.

I’m right now still in doubt on what is the better option, but both saying raise, makes me think its probably the best.
Having both better players to fold is deffinetly better than letting they see a cheap flop.

Well... I limped. Next decision point.

PAHWM 1/3 - 98o Wide Ranges

1/3€ Spain - Saturday arround 16:00h

Hero: BTN (350€) - I was playing Solid. Poker tables opens at 14:00h and I was there since the beginning. Have played more than 7 hands. Was something like 15/10 VPIP/PFR.
On the last two hands I Cbet and had to fold to Flop Raise. One IP and other OOP.

V1: BB (covers me) - 2/5 REG 30-35yrs woman. Have seen her before, but never played together. Knows everybody and I can spot alot of respect from other players and croupiers in the room.
Was playing really Tight for about 1:30h. 4 or 5 hands raising 2-3 of them. The first hand she played she lost 300€ vs a 2/5rec (seens to have history with the man), overbet shoving TT at a double flushdraw TURN with a T OTF). The man called with a turned straight and the river was clean to him.
Rebuy for table max 500€

I know she knows what happens on the table.
Was waiting for the 2/5 table to open and quite anxious to that (“I’ll go if we are 4 handed”).

V2: HJ (less than 200€) - Whale. Loose Passive Tipical spanish cassino 40yrs. man. Limps alot, sizing tells, etc. The entire package.

V3: SB (covers everybody. +600€) - the 2/5 rec I mentioned before. Was playing Tight Passive. Also waiting for the 2/5 table to open. Had his tablet opened. He was trully just waiting.

OTTH:

Hero 9d8s BTN 350€

#1 -

V3 SB 1€, V1 BB 3€, Folds to V2 HJ Limps, Hero BTN Limps, V3 SB Fold, V1 BB Check.


#2 -

Flop (10€)
Kc 9h 6d

V1 BB Check, V2 HJ Check, Hero BTN ?

Limp or fold pre.

Check back this flop.

I'm an indifferent to checking or betting $5. Either way the problem you have here is that there are not many turns cards that are good for you. 9/8/7 are really the only turn cards that you want to see. You don't want to start building a big pot with a meh hand but you have a pair and don't want to be too passive either.

If you bet flop then plan to check turn. If you check flop then evaluate on turn.

I'm cool with whatever preflop. A raise is fine to isolate the whale. However, with the whale playing just a $200 stack, even with position, always going to the flop with the worst of it (which 9 high likely is) is going to start adding up at this stack size (where a raise is putting in a non-insignificant portion of our stack). So I don't hate an overlimp, and I would typically lean to this now.

ETA: It's really not all that terrible for the 2 good players to also see a flop with the whale. With the whale in the hand, we're kinda mostly playing make-our-hand poker anyways, so the more in the pot with us in position the merrier. Preflop is a perfectly fine result, imo.

GlatetothepartyG

On the flop I would mostly bet as I'm just playing face up valuey against the whale. However, if we're more targetting the trickier BB (or think she could put us in a difficult spot with a check/raise to an obvious looking stab once the whale checks), I'm fine with a check back to setup a bluffcatcher.

Gsofaralldecisionsareveryclose,imoG

PAHWM 1/3 - 98o Wide Ranges

OTTH:

Hero 9d8s BTN 350€

#1 - overlimps

V3 SB 1€, V1 BB 3€, Folds to V2 HJ Limps, Hero BTN Limps, V3 SB Fold, V1 BB Check.


#2 - so I bet for value and protection after the hand came Xed to me. As it’s a Limp Pot, villains usually leads with some medium-good strenght cards, so the fact that noone bets, makes me think they have (a) no kings or a really weak one, (b) 66 trap, and maybe some K6 also trapping (c) marginal hands, (d) air. So I make it 5€ and...

Flop (10€)
Kc 9h 6d

V1 BB Check, V2 HJ Check, Hero BTN Bet 5€, V2 Fold, V1 Raise 15€, Hero ?

This is why I don't hate a check.

And at this point I would mostly just fold. Yeah, we fold the best hand some of the time and relinquish the hand in position that we'll have the next 2 streets. But things might not get any easier, cuz how often do people check/raise the flop and not continue with a turn bet? And in the end, even when we do mistakenly fold with the best of it, it's a very minor mistake in such a small and meaningless and very heavily raked pot (and there's no need to start turning it into a big mistake). Next hand, imo.

Gwedon'thavetowineveryhandG

Call the raise sometimes and see what villain does on the turn. Fold some of the time. Fold is 0 EV and the call is small EV but could be + or -.

Either way might be best in abstract and against a good one you will need some mix. But with no good read on villain it's guess work and not a big difference either way.

The principle here is that villain can easily be bluffing in a situation where you are on a wide range and have less KX then other hands. But it isn't worth fighting back too much when villain can easily have KX and not many turn cards help you.

[QUOTE=vini.barbosa;55491375]PAHWM 1/3 - 98o Wide Ranges

OTTH:

Hero 9d8s BTN 350€

#1 - overlimps

V3 SB 1€, V1 BB 3€, Folds to V2 HJ Limps, Hero BTN Limps, V3 SB Fold, V1 BB Check.


#2 - so I bet for value and protection after the hand came Xed to me. As it’s a Limp Pot, villains usually leads with some medium-good strenght cards, so the fact that noone bets, makes me think they have (a) no kings or a really weak one, (b) 66 trap, and maybe some K6 also trapping (c) marginal hands, (d) air. So I make it 5€ and...


Flop (10€)
Kc 9h 6d

V1 BB Check, V2 HJ Check, Hero BTN Bet 5€, V2 Fold, V1 Raise 15€, Hero Call.

#3 - I decided to call. V have 66, K6, 96, but I do too, and by playing IP we have the chance to see what she do OTT.
I was really on doubt to limp or raise or fold PF. I was really on doubt if Bet pr Check OTF, but once this V raises here on a spot that I could be betting a really wide range OTB, I jist think we have to call.
Her bluffs might just Raise and give up, or Raise and delay 2nd barrel OTR. It’s a clear fold if she continues OTT and we don’t improve, I do think we gotta call and see.
My line could represent monsters (sets and 2ps) and Kx.

-

TURN (40€)
3d

V1 Checks, Hero ?

Turn is a brick and puts you in a toss up situation between bet $25 and check.

Bet gives you the best chance of checking back the river, folds out some weak draws that have equity against you and might fold out a better 9X. Checking keeps the pot small and you have no desire to build a big pot here.

I favor a check in general.

I check back the turn. We have a weak but showdownable hand that just wants to get to showdown for as cheap as possible at this point. If she bets the river we'll have a decision to make, but let's at least have that decision in as small as pot as possible (cuz we're only going to end up with a very small hand).

ETA: Quads also makes some good points regarding betting the turn. I think all of our decision points in this hand have been pretty close, it's just kinda one of those middle of the road hands where we have lots of options available to us and there's probably not a huge difference between choices, even though we'll each lean our own way.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I see arguments both ways.

I want to bet this. We're going to hate any Q J T or 7 that falls because of completed SD's/pairs. 8s are problematic too because they cost us more when they complete straights. V will probably fold some of her worse gutters that she was stabbing with OTF to a bet of 20 - 25, which is great for our equity.

On the other hand, V clearly has some aggression and she may very well blow us off the hand with a second x/r. I tend to read the x/r, x line as weak, but that may not be the case with this V.

I probably end up betting 25 but I'm not happy about it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

I think there are some good reasons for checking the turn, but getting blown off just middle pair + no kicker + no draw isn't one. Only sucks getting blown off a hand if it has a decent draw or has a lot stronger showdown value, imo.

I'd be more concerned about betting the turn not guaranteeing us a free showdown (she can still donk the river giving us a "good price", but that would be the 4th bet going in postflop which is way too many bets for our hand strength).

GcluelessNLnoobG

What you guys think about making a small blocking bet of 1/4 - 1/3 (10€-12€).
I was talking about the hand with a friend that used to study spin and go with me and that’s what he would do.
Seens pretty ok to me.
That way we avoid the blown river, protect our hand and maybe can get some value draws and maybe a 6 that played with a raise and now think he have sd... or a 3 that hits.

[QUOTE=vini.barbosa;55493731] #4 - I made it 15€, but I miscalculated the pot and thought we had 45€.
Like most the 10€-12€ bet or a Check.
25€ bet IMO is the worst option because either villain have a TPMK/set/2p that isn’t folding, medium/weak hands that I won and are folding or AIR that could bluff me OTR.
So I would put it as: 10-12€ blocking/thinvalue/protection > Check > Bet more than 15€.

TURN (40€)
3d

V1 Checks, Hero 15€, V1 tank call.

RIVER (70€)
Qc

V1 tank Check, Hero ?

I think a small blocking bet on the turn is a mistake. You get no better to fold, few worse will call and you are inviting villain to raise you again. It won't price out any draws because for your giving good direct odds and leaving villain some implied odds. If you have some meta game history with villain I can see situation where it would work but in general no.

As played check the river. Most of the point of betting turn was to keep villain that does have you beat from betting river, either because of uncertainty or because they are trapping. The only draw that got there is super unlikely, either you were ahead the entire time or beat the entire time. Against certain villains a bomb bluff might get them off better middle pairs and some weak KX but doesn't seem like the villain for it.

Most of the point of the small turn bet was in attempt to showdown for this small price, so I now follow thru with that plan and check back the river.

FWIW, if I'm betting the turn (which I don't hate, although against a flop check/raiser I'm not leaning to this) then I probably also lean to a small bet so long as I'm pretty convinced my opponent won't play back at that. I think $15 into $40 is about in that ballpark, so I'm fine with it.

Glotsofdecisionpoints,lotsofwaysyoucouldhavegone,i moG

Result:
V1 X, Hero X and show 98o at K963Q.
V1 look at her cards, look at the board, again and again.
V1 show 97 and say: Nice hand.

It wasn’t THAT nice.
I think it was a cooler and positive variance that V1 had the best combo that lost for my hand.

But when she sd this, I like even more the smaller bet turn to get value from the weaker part of her range that where also bluffcatching turn with sd value.

10-12$ turn seens perfect vs this Villain, actually.
Vs most villains on LLSNL... You guys are probably right. They will see my line with alot of weakness and Couldn’t be good.

I would say that vs std llsnl player Check > 25$ > 10-12$.

But vs a thinking villain that knows we are thinking player, 25 could represent even more weakness.

The flop bet could be a X to... and we could call a bet from V or delay cbet ourselves OTT.

Anyway.

It’s a close hand, but also a different one once we are vs a good Reg, limped pot with veeery wide ranges.

I will go through flopzilla now and take a better look on how wide it is.

Thank you for the commentsz

Cya!