Kind think your PF play ends the PAHWM, at least for me. I think fixing your preflop game > much else you can learn from the hand.

As played, b/f 2/3rds pot, people's raising ranges are going to be stronger than usual. Hope you didn't end up c/c.....

I'm not sure about your "bloated pot" logic for flatting the raise. Once you call the raise the pot is going to be bloated no matter what you do.

I hate this hand already.

Oh well, we'll play it for set value if we have to. $5 gamble with TT and hope to turn it into HU SD with dead money is not that much of risk.

Obviously not. Raise to $75 and fold to a jam. Our perceived range with limp/raise is very strong, and it's quite easy to fold to a jam.

What would happen if villain just flat? Open jam on a low flop anyway. We might even fold out QQ and JJ. High variance ******ed play? Maybe, but I doubt it's much worse than opening for $25 and have 4 callers behind and attempt to play flop and turn.

Sure, but only EP players would run the risk of doing the same thing, because it gets less and less likely that someone will raise as more people fold or limp.

Perhaps he thinks that button will always raise? Sure, but like I said above, we can limp/raise pre and be fine folding to 3-bet.

Probably not, but they sure are going to raise with hands < TT as well as > TT.

How is this any different than limping for $5, other than the fact that you're doing it for $16 and that those calling $16 has stronger range than $5?

Plus this is not like online and you know exactly how much villain has. Watch you're off by a dollar and you can no longer raise.

Sure you can sit there and ask questions, but it's not like others are dumb enough to not know what you're attempting to do with your awkward raise size.

You lost me here in the rambling.

Agreed. If we are limping its to limp reraise not limp call. Once you limp call you are playing guessing games on a ton of flops.

preflop: I open to $15 (even tho I usually open much bigger with a $5 BTN straddle). The reason I open smaller is to make sure the door is open when the BTN shoves so we can reshove.
What happens most of the time:
We open to $15, 4 callers, BTN shoves, We reshove, everyone folds
So we have a $114 pot where we dominate BTNs range and have only really invested $27.
Remember if anyone 3bets your $15 open its a fold (unless we are getting set mining odds)

+1

Since the dynamic is a button straddle. To my knowledge it kills the action. Raising from the blinds first in is a very strong move.

Since the table is raising 80% of the time. I would limp r/r here. I probably never limp reraise. But this scenario its perfect.

This line sets yourself up for another player behind to limp with monsters.

Not saying that there would be players capable of catching what you're doing and flat $15 with monsters, but you should not raise AI without leaving outs to fold to 4-bet.

grunch

im making it 15-16 preflop and hoping V1 shoves it to reopen action and i can then shove/raise afterwards to get it HU. ive seen many ppl just check option on button here. i dont like l/rr because now i dont know if were bluffing or what.

most likely going to c/f here vs CO..you can make an argument to b/f vs V2 and b/c vs other villains but i dont wanna take the chance to let V2 bluff us with ak/aq type hands. i think he will raise all hands that beat us or he could even flat them. i just think vs V2 were screwed always and were good vs the other 2.

I hope you were being Ironic in your response.

Your answers are exactly why we shouldn't limp raise, we are never folding out JJ or QQ, it's not a "high variance play" it's just bad.

Making it $75 and folding would be SOOOO terrible.

I never said to make it $25, I said NOT TO.

You think they aren't dumb enough to fall for $16 but they don't have to be, remember V1 doesn't HAVE to shove. You expect them to be dumb enough to put in $75 with worse than 1010? You only need 1/3 of the callers to get the value of limpers and your hand is not being overplayed, under-repped unless we manage to limp/rr in which case we over-rep our hand against people who are not capable of folding 1010.

It looks like iv already soul-read the thread, hero should bet fold $40. Villains aren't complicated enough to jam with air at this point and the only hand we can be "bluffed" by is 99. Villains will call with overs though some of the time so you can get value. C/fing A,K,Q turns.

What? Why don't you explain it...

WTF...why am I even responding to a random rambling?

I don't think b/f in the $65-75 range is terrible. We're going to get a "tight player" to fold 2 overs frequently. The chances that hes going to bluff-raise us with 2 overs given the action and size of the side-pot is very low. If he raises, we are often way behind and rarely a coin flip.

You real?

Lol learn to read, you asked me to explain it and quote me explaining it.

You don't have to see why it's TERRIBLE, can't you see why the alternative is just simply better anyway? I know reading is hard for you but it's only a few paragraphs, it's not exactly War and Peace.

Since you have trouble reading have a crack at writing how about you try and explain to me why limp/reraising is good at all with pocket 10s.

I was. But, upon further reading, I assume I'm way off. I don't ever think of limp/RR'ing and I don't like being first to act in a straddled pot with loose players behind me, some of which are going to raise. I don't like the idea of limp/calling because I think it looks so ******ed/obvious, that I don't think I get paid when I do flop big. I won't know where I am if the pot gets raised and only a single over flops on a dry or wet board. I don't like the shorty on the BTN doing the straddling because I assume he's felting his hand if he gets any action whatsoever and I assume others know this. I don't like flatting his shove, and I don't really like reshoving over it, either. I don't see enough folds at a 1/2 table to make me think my shoving will send some huge message they should fold. I think 1/2 players want to gamble, see a big pot, and get anything they were playing in the middle because they were "priced in."

It's just not a scenario I am going to be familiar or comfortable with ever being in the SB. So, I elect to avoid trouble and wait for a better opportunity in an easy game. I know TT is a strong hand. But, like QQ, it's not in a 4way pot. I'm not going to be +EV here with about any line I take. My skill level just isn't there yet and at least I am admitting it. Part of being a winning player is knowing when you will play poorly and having the discipline to avoid such spots. Winning isn't getting in a marginal spot because we look down and find a medium pp so we play and hope for the best. Get in those spots after you've (the collective "you," not anyone specific) studied the situation enough to know a profitable approach.

V1 ($27) BTN - Just sat at the table bought in for 100, stack is down to 27. He was just at the table next to me and busted out. Haven't seen a hand of his yet, or him raise, but I've played with him before. Opening range is 77+, QJo+.

V2 ($200) CO - Tighter kid at the table, young, dressed kind of nice. Haven't seen one of his hands yet, but seems like he is trying to learn the game better. So far every time hes raised, its been hu and he took it down with a c-bet. Opening range is prob 99+ KQo+

V3 ($90)UTG+2 - A regular 2/5 player, not sure why hes sitting at 1/2, but is a crazy player. I've played with him multiple times, and is willing to call with literally ATC because the "Price is Right." Also have seen him bluff this session, the he bet $100 OTR on a Q high board with 3rd pair, and got called by kings. Opening range is 22+, 67s+, T9o+, QJo+, A5s+. Limp calling range is ATC that are suited, followed by most SC, and pretty often a bluff. Knows about position etc. has a little FTP card protector, and claims he used to be a torny player online.

V4 ($300) BB - Older Canadian guy at the table. Seems to be paying everybody off. Payed me off twice. Loves to call down with any pair. I have not seen him raise or make moves preflop, but post flop I've seen him try to bluff another guy who had been bluffing a lot off TPTK by raising OTT, and shoving OTR. His limp/calling range is any Ace, followed by suited 1-gappers and 56+ and Q10+

Hero ($300) SB - Playing pretty Tight for the night, won 3 hands, went to showdown twice, vs V4, showed TP, both times and won. I haven't been limping either, maybe once or twice this session.

Note* There is usually a raise 80% of an orbit.

V1 had just lost the other $70 of his stack about 2 hands ago and I think is tilted.

V1 straddles for $5 OTB.
Hero is in the SB with 1010 and... calls $5
V4, and V3 call $5
V2 Makes it $25
V1 goes all in for $27
Hero, V4, and V3 all call.

I know this is horrible, but I'm giving V2 credit for a big hand or PP here.
I don't want to raise here and be called by V2 only to be in a bloated pot OOP
I decide to Limp. Why? I had the idea of L/RR'ing because I thought V1 would shove. Also worse comes to worse, I can set mine if limped.

Flop $130

568

Hero donks $67
V4 calls
V3 calls all in
V2 sigh folds (lul AK)

I planned on B/F'ing as tmckendry said. Its the only way to find out where I am at.

Turn Main $130 Side $201

568 - 3

Hero...?

Were now heads up with the older canadian who will call that flop with basically any 7, , 8, and any overpair.

I limp preflop (I assume with the button straddle we are first to act preflop). I'm hoping short V1 or V3 get out of line in which case I'm snap putting-them-in.

I'm totally cool with preflop. Our implied odds ain't great with our sorta in-between setmining / value hand, but it's going to go at least 4 ways. With the all-in protecting the pot and this being multiway, postflop is going to be played pretty honestly by everyone, methinks.

I donk the flop for 1/2 PSB; if the preflop raiser raises I'm done with the hand, and I'll commit against any shortstacks. I don't like checking to the raiser cuz there's a decent chance this checks round and we hate pretty much every single turn card in the deck.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Wow, kinda gross spot on the turn. If I've counted right, we've got $205 left in a $330 pot, so if we're going to bet, the only bet is a shove. I'm guessing it's possible Villain can call with worse (pair + flush draw, OESD, 99, etc.). It's also possible villain could bluff (which he has been prone to do) but with two people already protecting this pot, that seems less likely. I ship, despite hating getting 150 BBs into a pot with a hand as weak as one pair on this board.

ETA: Meh. I just re-read my response and I'm not really sure I'm cool with shipping 100 BBs here when we could easily be drawing dead. But I'm trying to balance this against times where we could still easily be in the lead and don't want villain to draw for free. Ug.

GasIwastypingthisaspiderfellonme,andIreallyhatespi dersG

in 1/2 i'd easily ship the flop

limp raise all day, in this situation I'd make it $75 pre to iso V2, then c-bet like 3/4 pot and WALA you win the pot

Or someone has a better hand than you and you stack off for 100bbs because you decided to go all-in blind with 10's. WALA, you lost your point.

So...your original plan pre was to limp/rr. You limp, but dont rearaise because the man who opens to $25 is kinda tight and you "put him on a big pp". You gotta understand that your plan has completely changed, and if your putting him on a larger pair, you're calling to strictly set-mine. Buuuuut, you dont hit a set....and you lead? To b/f? So, your plan changed once again. If your gonna only call pre instead of l/rr'ing like you origonally planned, you have to c/f this flop. If you really believe that V2 has a huge pair ( you must, because you didnt re-pop pre), then leading this flop is like burning money.

V1 ($27) BTN - Just sat at the table bought in for 100, stack is down to 27. He was just at the table next to me and busted out. Haven't seen a hand of his yet, or him raise, but I've played with him before. Opening range is 77+, QJo+.

V2 ($200) CO - Tighter kid at the table, young, dressed kind of nice. Haven't seen one of his hands yet, but seems like he is trying to learn the game better. So far every time hes raised, its been hu and he took it down with a c-bet. Opening range is prob 99+ KQo+

V3 ($90)UTG+2 - A regular 2/5 player, not sure why hes sitting at 1/2, but is a crazy player. I've played with him multiple times, and is willing to call with literally ATC because the "Price is Right." Also have seen him bluff this session, the he bet $100 OTR on a Q high board with 3rd pair, and got called by kings. Opening range is 22+, 67s+, T9o+, QJo+, A5s+. Limp calling range is ATC that are suited, followed by most SC, and pretty often a bluff. Knows about position etc. has a little FTP card protector, and claims he used to be a torny player online.

V4 ($300) BB - Older Canadian guy at the table. Seems to be paying everybody off. Payed me off twice. Loves to call down with any pair. I have not seen him raise or make moves preflop, but post flop I've seen him try to bluff another guy who had been bluffing a lot off TPTK by raising OTT, and shoving OTR. His limp/calling range is any Ace, followed by suited 1-gappers and 56+ and Q10+

Hero ($300) SB - Playing pretty Tight for the night, won 3 hands, went to showdown twice, vs V4, showed TP, both times and won. I haven't been limping either, maybe once or twice this session.

Note* There is usually a raise 80% of an orbit.

V1 had just lost the other $70 of his stack about 2 hands ago and I think is tilted.

V1 straddles for $5 OTB.
Hero is in the SB with 1010 and... calls $5
V4, and V3 call $5
V2 Makes it $25
V1 goes all in for $27
Hero, V4, and V3 all call.

I know this is horrible, but I'm giving V2 credit for a big hand or PP here.
I don't want to raise here and be called by V2 only to be in a bloated pot OOP
I decide to Limp. Why? I had the idea of L/RR'ing because I thought V1 would shove. Also worse comes to worse, I can set mine if limped.

Flop $130

568

Hero donks $67
V4 calls
V3 calls all in
V2 sigh folds (lul AK)

I planned on B/F'ing as tmckendry said. Its the only way to find out where I am at.

Turn Main $130 Side $201

568 - 3

Hero checks, V4 calls.

Were now heads up with the older canadian who will call that flop with basically any 7, , 8, and any overpair.

River Main $130 Side $201

568 - 3 -2

Hero...?
Do we attempt to go for some thin value, or check?