V1: $530, HJ. Fishy/gambly young guy. Just as I'm sitting down at table he's in a hand, I might have pre-flop wrong but I believe it was 6 way limped, he raises to $17 from BB w/ JTo. Old guy in EP limp/rr to like $44, he calls. ATx r he takes a bet $20 on every street line and loses to KK. Since then he has moved seats, 2 to my right, and is friendly with myself and our neighbor, while playing a <$80 stack and commenting on how he just "needs to double up." He gets stacked, rebuys, and builds his stack up. One other hand of note: he folded the river but pretty sure he had JJ-KK, he raised pre-flop and on Axx w/pos called a flop donk bet, called turn, folded river. His VPIP is like 90% mostly limping and occasionally raising to $17 no matter if there were 0-3 limpers in front.

V2: $160 SB. Mix of reg and tourist lady. I don't think she gets tricky but think she can probably beat the avg 1/2 donk. Slightly too loose pre, slightly too tight facing aggression. She has a habit of raising limpers w/pos to $8 with a huge range but raising more like $13-17 with legit hands.

V3: $200 MP. not much history but in between T/P and L/P pre, T/P post old guy.

V4: $200 CO. 35-40ish friendly white guy, probably profitable at 1/2, basically plays like a nit for anything but a limped pot. He limps a fair amount, especially limping after V1. Very bluffable post-flop.

BB: $200 Newish to table, nothing much to note but seems like he'll be honest pretty much.

Hero: Covers, BUT. Has been fairly active but not meeting much resistance. Only hands shown down have been premium (AA, set of 5s).

Hero has J2.

Pre-flop: V1, V3, V4 limp.

Hero?

idk if I should include this part about how often I think they fold to raise so will put in spoiler

Also would like to note I'm not making this thread to show how cool/stupid I am playing J2s. I run into some questions post-flop

Easy fold....
But I'm sure that's not what happened...

If you're going to raise I say raise to $13-$17.

I would fold here. I would only raise here at the tightest of tables.

Easy fold.

Thread title should read "PAHWM 1/2: ATC on button w/3 limpers"

I wouldn't be worried about stealing(bluffing) at this level against these players. From BTN I would raise all broadway cards, big pairs, 50% of medium pairs, suited aces to ISO one of the poor players to play him post flop. J2s would be an insta muck for me IP or OP here.

This is all for value not for bluff.

Edit: Are you in SB or BTN?

BTN

V1: $530, HJ. Fishy/gambly young guy. Just as I'm sitting down at table he's in a hand, I might have pre-flop wrong but I believe it was 6 way limped, he raises to $17 from BB w/ JTo. Old guy in EP limp/rr to like $44, he calls. ATx r he takes a bet $20 on every street line and loses to KK. Since then he has moved seats, 2 to my right, and is friendly with myself and our neighbor, while playing a <$80 stack and commenting on how he just "needs to double up." He gets stacked, rebuys, and builds his stack up. One other hand of note: he folded the river but pretty sure he had JJ-KK, he raised pre-flop and on Axx w/pos called a flop donk bet, called turn, folded river. His VPIP is like 90% mostly limping and occasionally raising to $17 no matter if there were 0-3 limpers in front.

V2: $160 SB. Mix of reg and tourist lady. I don't think she gets tricky but think she can probably beat the avg 1/2 donk. Slightly too loose pre, slightly too tight facing aggression. She has a habit of raising limpers w/pos to $8 with a huge range but raising more like $13-17 with legit hands.

V3: $200 MP. not much history but in between T/P and L/P pre, T/P post old guy.

V4: $200 CO. 35-40ish friendly white guy, probably profitable at 1/2, basically plays like a nit for anything but a limped pot. He limps a fair amount, especially limping after V1. Very bluffable post-flop.

BB: $200 Newish to table, nothing much to note but seems like he'll be honest pretty much.

Hero: Covers, BUT. Has been fairly active but not meeting much resistance. Only hands shown down have been premium (AA, set of 5s).

Hero has J2.

Pre-flop: V1, V3, V4 limp.

Hero?

idk if I should include this part about how often I think they fold to raise so will put in spoiler


Hero raises to $16, 5 calls

My thinking: I expect to win the pot pre-flop a decent % and expect the flop to be 1-2 way where a c-bet will usually take it down. All villains playing fit or fold and passively post-flop. Perhaps it was a bit optimistic heh. Well you clicked the thread so you're stuck with J2s 6 way on to the flop...

Flop ($91 after drop): K62 V1 ($494 bh) bets $20, V4 folds, Hero ??

Live Reads

Just fold. Your button steal didn't work and you got 5 callers. Now you have bottom pair, woot. I'm never putting another dollar into this pot.

I used to think that playing just like the pros on TV was cool, button stealing, 3-betting with 10-3 suited, raising 5-6dd UTG but after trying this and just losing a lot of money, I've found that the best way to beat 1/2 is to play TAG. Don't bluff, don't make moves. Just value bet.

Fold. I think this is a bad spot to get involved even with the odds you are getting.

Even with the price you're getting, you can't call for value or to draw to your five outs that may or may not be good. If you call or raise here, it's a float/bluff. I don't float/bluff players who won't fold JT on an ATx when bet into on all three streets (even if the bets were so small).

If you think you can bully a player like this off a medium strength hand by bombing the flop with a raise, then firing two more barrels, it'd probably be better to wait until you have a spot with at least some decent equity - gutshots w/runner-runner flush draws, etc.

You don't make money at 1/2 by getting people to fold. Nor is it necessary to maintain balance at 1/2.

Leave the table before the hand was dealt. AP, fold.

lol this is possibly the worst PAHWM ever... fold pre. fold flop. easy game

He BET all 3 streets.

Noted.

Still a fold pre, fold flop situation.

According to reads we should be bluff raising this flip small with intention of getting villain to fold later. He is capped at 6x and has shown ability to fold on later streets vs aggression.

Pre is too ambitious though and puts us in this spot too often where we are vs a telegraphed weak range, but stuck doing guesswork in a lot of spots about whether or not he actually folds his face up hand. Try to move him off these weak hands every time he telegraphs it and we likely make his bad play +ev. Or we bloat too many pots that we let him win if we aren't fighting over them.

This is the first PAHWM I've seen where the decisions are unanimous.

i retract my previous statement... atleast we're all getting along for once

fold flop.

In the words of Gaines, V1 is a very "sticky" villain.

Against such villain, steal equity is literally non-existent.

I guess you can try big bets against V1, but without HH of him folding to big bets, I wouldn't know the proper size of big bet that would work.

Pretty lame situation, but I don't think you can win without making a huge bluff or improve your hand.

My choices of line:

-Float flop with intent to make big raise on turn, depending on how other villains respond to the flop bet.

-Make a $100 raise on the flop and give up if anyone calls, unless the hand improves, or it goes check/check turn and river, then maybe I'll just shove in HU situation.

I won't repeat what everyone else has said about pre, you know what you did...

On the flop I like a smallish raise to $45-$55 it looks like a weak king trying to protect itself or JJ-77, it's definitely not AK and it doesn't look like diamonds to me so if you turn an ace barrel that or any diamond/maybe a Jack/2. I would be careful if a 10/Q/J turns, especially a 10 since I think he shows up with K10 alot here. With live reads its alot easier, but thats my 2 cents.

raising this flop if you think he has any kx combos is burning money.

XXsooted
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: soul reading noobs since 2005
Posts: 24,653

Is this for real or a level?

its unrelated to poker and jokey ya