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Overplaying TPTK Overplaying TPTK

09-22-2015 , 10:39 PM
Hero-23 year old Indian guy. I'm pretty active preflop, also players might think I'm tilting , I double barreled a K high flop when one utg raised to 5 and I 3 bet to 20 2nd to act with A10 and doubled barreled and the guy ships turn and showed KK for top full house. Next orbit same V makes it 6$ I make it 12 I get 3 callers than back to V who re pops it to 70 he said he had QQ.
Btn-275$

V- playing solid hes one of those MAWGs who calls loosely preflop but if he's continuing he usually has something.SB-300

V2- i have history with him he knows I'm capable of making moves and triple barrel bluffing. He knows what he's doing , he tries to make moves not all the time but I think he does a decent job at it. He's about late 40s early 50s.MP-225

Hero has A K 4 limps to me I make it 12, only V and V2 call.

Flop K105 pot-35

Checks to me I bet 25, both Vs call.

Turn 9 pot-110

Checks to me I bet 70 , v1 ships v2 folds

I know this is always a fold but what do you think about my sizing and should I have bet the turn ??
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09-23-2015 , 12:29 AM
How many limpers pre? if more than 2, raise a little bigger.

Flop bet is good, turn I am checking back. If we are heads up I would be more likely to fire another bullet, but when both vs call it's more likely at least one is on a draw. The 9 completes the most obvious draw, so I am checking turn for pot control.

Calling 1/2 pot or smaller bets from V on a safe river, calling anything from V2 except on a Q, T or J river.
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09-23-2015 , 12:43 AM
I play it exactly as you did except maybe a 50 dollar.bet on the turn. Dont see any benefit to checking except giving villians another card to chase you down if the turn didn't help them
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09-23-2015 , 04:24 AM
Check turn call river if less than 2/3 PSB
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09-23-2015 , 04:51 AM
You played it well but raise it more preflop
Don't like checking turn as KJ, KQ, TJ, QT will call a turn bet now that they have picked up a gut shot.
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09-23-2015 , 07:37 AM
People are likely to misinterpret your HH because you don't give enough info, like # dealt in and positions of players. E.g. in this one, are you OTB? (Edit - OK, I figured out your specs., but from what you wrote there should be 44 in the pot before the rake.)

PF you can make it 15 there.

OTF, you can check back if you wanted to, because the next card isn't likely to change your equity much. So if you want pot control, that's probably the right place to do it. The flop is on the dry side.

As played OTF, you can see that your bet didn't help define ranges much at all.

OTT, unless you have exactly QJ or a set, you are representing a medium strength hand, almost playing your hand face up. So your bet is completely polarizing for everyone at the table. They'll almost never continue when your HIG there.

Given that you don't want to go to the felt with a pair, I would say 1/2 pot bets in both instances are superior, say 20 OTF and then 45 OTT. I don't think checking back OTT is a good idea. The situation is way too fluid at that point, and there's hardly a card in the deck that will help you, so all you're doing is giving free cards. Even HU, unlikely I would check back; it's just super weak and smacks of surrender.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 09-23-2015 at 07:55 AM.
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09-23-2015 , 10:12 AM
You played it fine. The turn bet is a bit on the small side though. A ton of hands that you beat just picked up extra equity, whether it's a gutter or a back door Fdraw. I'm trying to get max value and betting 90ish.
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09-23-2015 , 10:20 AM
The positions and stacks sizes and # of limpets are all in the op. I just thought after the hand that the sizing was large that pair and a gut shots couldn't call unless it was specifically KQ, KJ or pair with a flush draw. Fwiw he showed me the nuts(QdJd)
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09-23-2015 , 10:24 AM
It's highly unlikely all three villains can have a pair of Kings here. After *BOTH* check/call the flop (with no flush draws out there) and the one obvious turn draw comes in on the turn, why do you think the turn is a good bet?

Both villains limp/called pre, so it's unlikely they check/called the flop with the possible hands like AQ and AJ, AQ and AJ or AQ and AJ as those hands would have been raised pre (for most people). Same with KQ.

You are targeting a very narrow range of KJ in my opinion
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09-23-2015 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Both villains limp/called pre, so it's unlikely they check/called the flop with the possible hands like AQ and AJ, AQ and AJ or AQ and AJ as those hands would have been raised pre (for most people). Same with KQ.
People don't three bet these at the rocky/nitty live tables I find. Not to say that they shouldn't.

Unless you're planning to muck your hand OTR, i.e. unless you're giving up on the hand, you should bet the turn. It's the last chance to get value those times your HIG. This particular turn card was nasty, but the object is to keep our decisions simple, and make theirs more difficult. Checking back runs contrary to that, IMO anyway. We want to semi-bluff and bluff this turn, so we need to have value here sometimes as well.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 09-23-2015 at 11:45 AM.
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09-23-2015 , 11:55 AM
I didn't realize that the 9 completed the straight draw at the time I just missed it so I saw the 9 as a blank but afterwards realized it was a bad spot
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09-23-2015 , 12:13 PM
The hand isn't very useful as a bluff catcher OTR because we're still multiway.
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09-23-2015 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
It's highly unlikely all three villains can have a pair of Kings here. After *BOTH* check/call the flop (with no flush draws out there) and the one obvious turn draw comes in on the turn, why do you think the turn is a good bet?

Both villains limp/called pre, so it's unlikely they check/called the flop with the possible hands like AQ and AJ, AQ and AJ or AQ and AJ as those hands would have been raised pre (for most people). Same with KQ.

You are targeting a very narrow range of KJ in my opinion
Nost raise AQ, but tons of people limp/call AJ and KQ. Obv, if we know these villains don't do that then that changes things. The first caller can easily have AT, QT, JT and the over caller can easily have the whole spectrum of gutshots. If we are playing two nits, then yea we're in a bad spot, but that isn't my impression.

A lot of guys will lead out with the turned straight. Obv not always, but I discount it a fair amount when both check.
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