Effective stacks $500 (2/5 with 500 max)

Hero opens cutoff with KhKs to 25 over one limper

Young grinder villain in the SB flats and limper calls

(75) Flop 8s9d4d SB checks limper checks Hero bets 60 V calls limper folds

(195) 9c V x hero bets 120 and V tank calls

First questions here is the bet here. My thinking is the number of 9s in SB flatting range .. 2 combos each of A9s, 9Ts, J9s (maybe), 1 combo of 89s and 99, 3 combos of 88 and 44 that he might raise sometimes on the flop (so lets give him half) ... total 11 combos that I lose to. I can still get value from 6 combos of JJ, TT, half of QQs (assuming he 3 bets other half) and some flush draws ... total 20 or so combos. Does that justify the bet?

(435) 3s V shoves for 320. I check to see if I have the K of diamond (I dont) and call.

Final board 8s9d4d9c3s

Still losing to the same 11 combos. I have to be good here 30% of the times so if the V is bluffing (or value cutting himself) with 4 combos, in my mind this is a must call.

I also think that if top card that pairs on the turn is a J or a Q I dont bet the turn, T is close but 9 is a bet.

What do you think?

Thanks.

I've found that non-showdown draws will bluff here sooo often when they miss that checking turn 100% is fine.

We also get river value from pairs that wouldn't call the turn.

Hardly anyone bluff shoves the river into the preflop raiser after the preflop raiser bet the flop and turn. Your hand looks exactly like what it is. A big overpair. If you were OOP and checked the river to him, it could be a call because people will bluff shove a missed draw in that spot a lot more often.

Your turn bet is fine, but I would fold the river.

Would definitely be checking turn here. That's a much better card for his range than for ours. I would rather keep ranges wide and allow him to bluff the river.

As played, I'm folding river because you basically never see flat turn, jam river as a bluff in these kind of spots. If he had a strong draw he has had ample opportunity to do something else. He could have led flop, x/r flop, led turn, x/r turn. It's very unlikely that he knocks all these opportunities back only to come alive with a bluff OTR.

This hand *might* be part of a balanced calling range, but your better calls are going to be with hands that block some of the value combos you mentioned earlier, like TT or A8s. In a spot like this blocking value hands is going to be more important than being able to beat TT-QQ because V just doesn't have many combos of those hands in his range. Not 3-betting those hands preflop and then taking this line postflop is pretty rare, so I would heavily discount them.

Whether or not you should have a balanced calling range here is another question. Like others have said, this is just not a common bluff spot, especially on a blank river. That tilts this hand more towards fold in my opinion.

I don't hate the turn bet on this board. On a drier board sure, but this board is a bit too wet for me to want to give a free card. Sure, we can pot control and see a showdown for the sameish price as our turn bet, but I'm not sure the value of that is outweighed by the value of a bet.

check turn and call most rivers.

ap fold

My games have exactly no players who will call $120 when the top-card-pairing-turn 9 hits UNLESS they already had what they thought was top pair (9's) to begin with.

Maybe your game does.

Your mileage may vary.

I doubt that’s true.

And if it were you need to be dbl barreling at a 100% freq

That doesn't make any sense. Why would you double barrel into a range that is only top pair or better? You will be lighting money on fire with all of your bluffs.

You want to double barrel against V's who are super wide calling the flop with low and mid pairs. This way we actually have FE against their junk, not a nutted range.

So all those players would fold QQ-TT on a 8949r board to a double barrel?

I think you guys are right that river is a fold in this case as most dont ever bluff the river with misses since guys like me love to call all-ins with one pair hands.

He said that everyone in his game folds everything but trips vs a turn barrel when the 9 pairs ott. How is bluffing here, given this statement, lighting money on fire? They fold all their draws, NFDs, straight draws, 2nd pairs, underpairs, overpairs according to that statement.

It makes perfect sense. If everyone is really folding their entire range other than 9x or 44/88 on a 8s9d4d9c board then you should be double barrelling that turn card with everything including total air.

Their range isnt only TP or better. Their continuing range is and they will have those hands so rarely that a double barrel is highly +EV.