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Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board

02-28-2015 , 03:29 PM
Recently playing 1/2 I found myself in a position where I picked up Q10 in the SB and called before the BB (V1) raised to $12 at which point the player UTG+1 (V2) called. There was no other initial limpers so its the 3 of us going to the flop with $36 in the pot.

V1 is a MAWG who is a very passive player who limps alot and very little does he ever get out of line, so with him raising from the big blind I can narrow his range down to 10+, AJ+. At the moment he has 140bb and has been on a heater for roughly the last hour or so. From what I have seen from the past he has trouble laying down big hands so even though I am behind and OOP I can count on IO to level the playing field.

V2 on the other hand is an aggressive MAWG who has been losing and c/c himself to death throughout the night. Due to the shortness of his stack, roughly 40bb, he was unable to really put any pressure on the table by bullying them so at this point with him just limping pf before the BB put in his raise I put him at a wide range of garbage, too wide to type. What I knew he didn't have was a hand worth opening with originally. So I could exclude all face card combos, any Ace combo (he really is that aggresive), plus all pairs.

The flop comes Q102 and I immediately check allowing for V1 to contiune betting at such a board. He opens for $28 at which point V2 just calls indicating he has very little otherwise he would have pushed with his short stack had he had any piece of the board, which I was hoping he would do. Now that I had utilized Relative Position I felt I had enough money in the middle ($92) to just try and pick it up right there so I pushed the rest of my stack ($280) immediately into the middle pricing out any draws from continuing on. At this point I was hoping V1 had KK or AA and would call. I did not put him on Q-Q or 10-10 since I held blockers so I was not afraid of sets, he definately didn't open with 2-2's so I knew I had the best hand at the time. I also didn't pick up on any tells other than that V2 was tired as **** and was zoned out just waiting for a hand.

So is it a good idea to overbet the flop as I did? or should I have played it another way? I also wanted to give the illusion I was buying the pot by overbetting it hoping maybe even TPTK would call me.

Any advice on how the whole hand played out would be appreciated, from pf on. Should I have led out on the flop? I know just calling the flop is -EV but I still feel my raise might have been too much. Any thoughts?
Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Quote
02-28-2015 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
felt I had enough money in the middle ($92) to just try and pick it up right there so I pushed the rest of my stack ($280) immediately into the middle pricing out any draws from continuing on.
This is bad thinking. You want draws to continue, just at a bad price. That said, in this instance V1 has basically no draws in his range. He led per OOP and bet almost pot on a wet board. He has an overpair here usually, sometimes AQ. Only possible draw is AcKc, and as he'll think A and K are outs for him, he'd never fold that anyway. As for V2, he doesn't have enough left for him to be paying a bad price for a draw anyway.

I don't mind a c/r here, as the open raiser could often see it as a semi bluff, but I wouldn't CRAI. I make it $100 even, and get the rest in OTT if he doesn't just shove his overpair now.
Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Quote
02-28-2015 , 03:58 PM
Fold pre.

As played, I like the idea of an over bet. I would personally bet smaller though, maybe $128.
Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Quote
02-28-2015 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TextheZombie
Fold pre.

As played, I like the idea of an over bet. I would personally bet smaller though, maybe $128.
Would you not call Q 10s here? How come was the bet too big by v1 pre?
Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Quote
02-28-2015 , 06:42 PM
Grunch.

A few things... You seem to think that because V2 limp called pre-flop that he can't have two broadway cards, Ax, or a PP. This is basically totally false IMO. He can 100% limp/call with all of the hands you just described. Matter of fact, those hands probably make up a rather large portion of his range.

Secondly... If you notice, the range that you put V1 on COMPLETELY dominates your hand. If he is playing tight enough where you can range him that well, just fold you hand pre-flop. You say that you have implied odds here, but really you have reverse implied odds, especially if you are going to play like this after the flop. You are making it relatively east for him to simply fold everything that you beat and have him snap you off when he does have a set. Bad players will obviously stack off with AA/KK/AQ, but you are really trying to help him play perfect by over shoving. Just make it like $90-$110 OTF and shove the turn.

Lastly, obviously you want to price out draws, but you also want the draws to call incorrectly. They probably wont call you if you are jamming 3x pot. The thought that you "just want to take it down now" is fish think. You should be thinking "how can I get my opponent to put his money in the pot when he is far behind?".
Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Quote
02-28-2015 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck T New
Would you not call Q 10s here? How come was the bet too big by v1 pre?
QTs is a pretty marginal hand. Sometimes you hit the flop well, like OP did, but the majority of the time you connect you are going to end up with a pair and a weak kicker.

It is fine to play when you are in position but preferably if you are the PF aggressor. Against tight LLSNL players it's an unnecessary gamble to get involved out of position with QTs at all.

IMO.
Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Quote
03-02-2015 , 07:41 AM
Cheers for response. I totally see this. I am making transition from mtt and sng to cash so hands like this are puzzling from time to time.
Over-Betting 2 Pair on Draw Heavy Board Quote

      
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