Hello, soon going to play live 9max 1/3 or 5/5 no antes, whats optimal open raise size on those stakes?

Well, atm i play online 9max ante games deep stack my open raise usually is 3-3.5bb but on live there will be no antes, maybe straddles sometimes, should i open for 10 for 1/3 and 20 for 5/5?

Does it make sense to steal blinds at all with trash hands from btn/co positions? On online it worths to steal because pot is usually 5bb with antes included, but on live once again there will be no antes

This question is leaning dangerously close to "how do I beat live" territory. Just too many questions that depend on too many factors. I'll leave it open for now, but l'm iffy on it, and am limiting it to the open sizing, and editing your OP. Will close if it goes off the rails.

1) What is the rake?
2) How are the players?
3) Do you have any reason to expect it will often get to you in CO un-opened? That would be rare in most 1/3 games.

Basically, it depends. And the two games will likely play very differently. But live is usually not about stealing the blinds. Sometimes it can be about "stealing the calls" by often taking it down with a c-bet on the right boards, but you should usually be raising for straight value, at least until you have iron reads. Live low-stakes games are just incredibly cally, and value >>>> FE.

I recommend you read the online to live adjustment threads in the "Best of" sticky, as well as the "The old argument, why raise so much" thread in the same sticky.

1) Rake for 1/3 i think is 4% and 2% for 5/5 but not sure, something like this but i remember for sure rake for 5/5 was twice as low compared to 1/3
2) Players most likely will call more often than compared to online
3) Often probably not but when it happens even rarely probably not worth a steal right?

I agree on that live games are incredibly cally so probably i shouldn’t steal at all and i shouldn’t cbet with air if i miss the flop, only concentrate on betting value right? But optimal open raise size what should be?

Also it makes sense as you said live is not about stealing blinds, its about stealing the calls or maybe limps too

Another one on the "best of" might be the Concept of the Month on C-betting.

Do you know what the max rake for those games? And do they rake all pots, or is it "no flop, no drop?"

You can sometimes steal pre, but it just depends so much on the game. Like, in California, they rake $3 before the deal, so there would only be $1 to potentially steal. In other places, they don't rake until the flop, and with the SB and BB being equal in the bigger game, it could well be worth it.

As for optimum raise sizing, it depends on your game. If you are basing it on value, and playing a tight range, you can raise bigger for straight value. If you want to protect the weaker parts of your range and play laggier, you should open smaller. Which of these should predominate depends highly on your Vs, and whether they tend to overcall or overfold. In most live games, the former is much more common than the latter.

My default is $10-12 in 1/3, and $15 in 2/5. I haven't played 5/5, but I'd probably go a bit bigger. But I don't have one open size that I use all the time. It depends so much on how deep the game is playing, what my Vs are like, and what the table considers "normal." Also, I raise a lot bigger if there are limpers (if I have a legit hand) or overlimp (something I'd never do online) if I have a speculative hand.

In 1-3 games, there are lots of limpers. To some extent also in 2/5 and probably 5/5. So you raise larger with limpers. At some tables, you can open to 15 at 1/3. At tight tables, you may get people limping and folding to raises, so you can't make big raises at limpers. You don't really want to steal the blinds. At 5/5, the raises are probably not as big in comparison to the blinds, but see what other people are doing. In live poker, people want to see a flop with whatever, so you need to adjust to that in various ways.

They don’t take rake until the flop and also min pot must be 20 it to be raked if i remember correctly, max rake not sure tbh

I don’t really want to open with bigger size because i want to give them room to 3bet me if i get dealt aces, if i open 20 on 1/3 lets say i may reduce callers/limpers but for example AQ etc will not 3bet me, they will just call, also i need to open with small pairs too so it will be obvious if i open big with value hands and small with small pairs so i think yes 10-12 can be optimal for 1/3 and 15 for 5/5 i believe

With small pairs i think its better to open 10 and if someone 3bets lets say 45-50 might be profitable call if they play 200bb deep or limp with small pairs and call lets say 20-25 raise? But i prefer open raising with all ranges

As live players are more cally i think i won’t have problem to get value from them so i should definitely reduce stealing blinds and cbeting with air, i dont believe 33% cbets will get profitable folds live while they do on online games and air cbets more than 33% live would be just burning money if i dont follow with good size double barrel as live players are cally but i dont like that wild style

As there are lots of limpers i should choose preflop range suited cards, small pairs etc thats good for multiway pots and instead of trying to get rid of limpers i may play multiway pots more often, raise them small, anyway for limpers doesnt matter i think if i raise 15 or 20, if they have small pair they will still call just to see flop if they hit a set, if i raise 20 and i have AA they may stack me if they hit a set so maybe i should go for small raises and play multiway pots carefully with pot control

This is the most online pro thing to say... If you are in a mid to bad 2-5 game you might want to size down to 3x because of 3bets. In anything lower 3bets are mostly JJ+/AK BTN vs. CO, so expect them to happen around that often.

Please do this.

Trust me, most live players will just call with AQ even if you do size down. Three betting is rare in low-stakes live games, and is usually JJ+/AK (and JJ is iffy for a lot of players), though this is getting a bit wider as more online style play leaks over to live.

Live poker is tight as hell. You might think "That's great, I'm gonna collect lots of small pots!" Not so fast. You still have to beat the rake.

Try to beat $20 pot with $5 rake and you'll realize the problem.

$5/$10 or $10/$20+ is where you can play with your online style, scooping all the small pots. But you will encounter good pros there. Good luck with that.

Like a year ago i was playing live 1/3, there was one nitty regular on the table, back than i was testing different opening sizes but once i started to open 10 and he saw i was opening even small pairs with 10 raise i received few 3bets from him, he 3bet me third time with AJo it was unheard of him 3betting with such hand and he got in trouble, well i feel like live 1/3 players really hate small raises when they have some kind of hand and they get out of comfort zone

Even at live $5/$10 or $10/$20 i believe stealing with trash hands not worth it until there are antes, i might be wrong

In low stakes live games, I'll usually see what other people at the table are generally raising, and just follow suit. If I happen to get dealt a hand to raise as soon as I sit down, I'll typically default to $15 at 1/3 and 2/5, but adjust up or down depending on the stack sizes at the table, how much I'm buying in for, if I know anything about the game and players, etc.

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I'll probably raise 10 for 1/3 and 15 for 5/5 and see how it goes