He may have a str8. I guess most people are tight enough to bet/fold them now.

Why do you feel the need to post your 5/10 brags in a forum for the stake that you no longer play?

It's like me bragging to 3/6 limit player how much I made in 1/2 nl.

I would be fairly surprised if there is much difference between his calling range if you shove vs. if you make it the smaller size. I think if any raise is good a shove is the best line.

Interesting spot though. I think your probably being a bit hard on yourself. There are 8 hands that beat you. You listed 6 combos you beat he is pretty likely to have. There are a bunch of other ones that he could possibly have. I think the chances of all the other flush combos that he could have combined probably makes it a fine river raise.

Since LLSNL players call too wide (even the "decent" ones) I would much rather make a mistake by raising too thin for value than not raising thin enough.

Obviously I would prefer to make neither mistake, but the fact that you are putting thought into raising an objectively very strong hand that most people say "lawl the nuts I raise" should make you feel a little better imo.

Vs Joe the Legend shove is 100% the right play but I thought this guy may fold if I jam his $225 to $900. Was a gut feeling, could be wrong.

I think it's very possible that a Q, J, or T high flush folds to a 4x shove (roughly 2ish:1 odds) but calls a min-raise (5:1 odds).

I also think I could be making up stuff in my head since I don't personally know the villain.

Were results posted? Did I miss them somewhere?

Unless villain is calling with every Qxdd that he gets to the river with (and then some) I don't think you can raise this for value.

Seriously though, this hand should be posted outside of this thread. This **** pisses me off, it is a good hand and a lot of people who could learn from it never will.

Just subscribed to crush live poker.

Make me good Bart.

That Rudy soundtrack still gets me.

Its possible, but people at 2/5 don't really like to fold flushes.

Do you know the guys name? I might know him.

Lol there's no obligation to post hands to help other people. Its a chat thread about live poker, why wouldn't people post occasional hands?

Because its rare that I win... and its fine since it falls under the category of LIVE NL

Don't worry about seeUlater, we don't mind your contributions to the live chat thread. At least someone is doing they thang.

Btw, its not like I constantly post brags.

seeUlater hates me. We argued about chk/call vs. chk/raise in the "88 OOP against PFR on 345r" thread. t'was a heated debate...

there is nothing wrong with posting a hand just that it was interesting, obviously we want to raise the river with the second nuts but it had some interesting questions to it

If I had K2, I raise that river 100% of the time. If I have K8, I raise it 90% of the time. The 8 blocker is important because it's the deciding factors in about a zillion worse diamond combos he can have, but I just can't see myself flatting with 3rd nuts in that spot.

Results:

He said "wow" and tanked for a little bit. I'm thinking "sweet he has a worse flush and I'm getting paid."

Then he said "I guess I could be that unlucky." My heart sank with that line. He sees the straight flush possibility but he must have the ace-high.

He called and I lost to AQ.

I think that it would mostly tilt me that he didn't snap call or snap shove. But if that's the way he's thinking sounds like you're right that you shouldn't have shoved. But also probably right that you shouldn't have raised.

Well he said villain's flush range is currently 7 nut diamond flushes, 7 obvious non nut diamond flushes with some % of combos in between. Obviously we can raise here and it won't be awful but to open the action again we need to be ahead of 50% of the combos in villain's calling range. Hero wasn't too specific beyond saying he was a mostly solid player by live 2/5 standards which is a little nebulous but specific.

The bet on the river is one of two things, a blocking bet where villain is going to fold to a reraise or a small bet that he hopes gets reraised because if he ch/r ai with the nuts he doesn't think he will get paid off. The only hands he is continuing with after this bet are flushes and I can think of a lot of players that I would smooth call the river against and a lot of players I would raise the river against. Basically if he is capable of bet/folding a Qxdd flush I don't think we can raise the river.

Do we have to always have PF last 24 hrs in the PAHWM threads? I only ask because I think a lot of time long periods where there isn't much to talk about leads to the threads getting derailed. And PF decisions tend to just not be that interesting.

I think its important that the other decisions, the central decisions, stay up for everyone to get a chance to post and a little time for conversation about it. But I think its counterproductive for PF.

To which you replied, "Nope, I guess I could be that unlucky."

Fwiw I'm a donkey and raise the river here all the time I just don't think it is the proper play some of the time

In a lol results-oriented sense I am assuming if he tanks like that with AQ he probably folds most of the lower ones. But who knows, people are weird.

FWIW just because he didn't raise with the ace-high flush, losing to one combo, doesn't mean he isn't paying me off with a worse flush.

I think math-wise my raise is still a mistake (though not a huge one) because my 8 blocks a lot of combo draws he could potentially have on the turn, so the number of worse flushes he can have is somewhere between 6 and 10 combos, but likely closer to the former. When I'm losing to 8 hands, ever hand combination counts. And I'm losing $675 to the 3 nut combos he shoves for sure.

I love all of the posts that say disregard everthing I did before I got check raised all in on the river and just tell me what to do now. Its like, “hey Dad its me billy and im in jail. Don’t ask me why I got drunk (standard). Don’t ask me why I drove (yawn). Don’t ask me how my car ended up in a 7-11 (meh). Just tell me how to keep from getting buttfuqqed tonight.

The truth is the beginning of the hand is the MOST important part…BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Just like w/ 9 ball every shot sets up the next shot(s).

-Limon

Yawn. I didn't say "skip PF" or "PF doesn't matter." I just said that whether or not you should raise K4s on the button doesn't really lend itself to a particularly long discussion and when decisions stay up too long without there being anything new to talk about that's when the trolls come out.

The deification of Limon is annoying. I'm sure he's a good player and all, but posting a quote from him that's only tangentially related to what I was saying as a response to a suggestion to improve the PAHWM threads isn't particularly useful.