I don't have a man crush on sabr wtf. He is not the player I thought he was. Yes he plays a style that I would love to play in low stakes. But he has tilt issues something I would never have. My mind is just too tough for that. I do commend him for playing a laggy style in a 100bb cap game its very impressive. So of course I always bring up his name.

The point is if your playing 15/10 your range crushes your opponents and due to stack size your never thin value betting.

I am how ever going to try to implement galfonds 30/10 recommendation. So maybe I would be thin value betting in the up coming months. Since most of the pots I play will be limped pots.

I'm done for the day bout to go play a 10hr+ session since I didn't play last night.

Have a blessed day.

Before you go, define "thin value-betting". I don't think the common usage of it matches whatever it is you think it means (I am not really sure what you think it means).

Yep, it's true that you have no idea what thin value bet is.

The point is that most people would check in these spots rather than bet, because they think they're getting looked up only by a stronger range.

It's unbelievable how soft the game must be in Commerce if pokah still has a roll to play in it.

We are not talking about players with mubs. We are all aggressive players here.

Well, it's a start because at least your providing some reasoning... but again, please just drop the whole holier than thou crap... Anyway, sure, if villain is pot-committed we can value-bet thinner because he can't fold (if we think he has a weak range), but I also think you're ignoring 2 major premises here.

1) a lot of live low stakes players don't understand pot-committment, SPRs, thresholds, pot-odds, etc. How often do you see a dude call off half his stack just to fold a blank river on a board he couldn't possibly have had a missed draw?

2) maybe this is a product of you playing low bb games, but dude, where are you getting it in your head that every hand has to end in an all in? betting thin can be on a single street for $10, it doesn't have to be a bet that puts the guy all in. Betting thin can occur anywhere, for any amount of money, at any stage in pot-committment. If anything, the mere psychological aspect of being put "all in" for $50 is more fearing than putting $50 in the pot when they have $200 behind or there's another card to come. But yes, if you're betting on the river with an over-pair and the dude has <half pot-sized bet left OTR, this isn't really "thin value betting" due to committment, sure, I'll give you this.


Easy example of thin value betting that has no relevance to all-ins or pot-commitments:

Effective stacks $200, I raise OTB to $10 with 89, BB calls. Flop 223, villain checks, I bet $15, he calls. Turn: 3, villain checks, I check back. River is an 8, villain checks, and I bet $25. Is he committed? of course not. Do we beat his range? Yes. Simple analysis: He has a lot of A-high/weak PPs, 3bets pre with good PPs, raises flop a lot with 2x/33 (and doesn't have many 2x pre), and leads river with anything beating us most of the time because it looks like we're gonna check it back. A lot of people would check here in hero's shoes because it looks like he can have a missed draw a lot and might have a scared 2 or whatever the hell the reason is. We don't check, because LLS players call us light, and when he calls us with A4 thinking we'd never bet AK and have to be bluffing here, we make money. There is nothing close to an all in happening here.

I agree that is a thin value spot. But how many times are people raising 98 here. Not too many if you ask me.

Thinnest 'value bluff' ever of mine? J10 three barreling a 983 flop. Board bricks out. I'll never forget how villain started shaking as he glared and stormed out of the poker room.

It is much too complicated for my LLNL mind to determine if this qualifies as "thin value"

you mean in hero's shoes? close to 100% of the time if folded to me OTB... i dunno, like i said, i play pretty LAG but i think most people are raising there? but it doesn't even have to be us raising preflop, it can be us calling preflop and the hand turning out in a way where we think we're ahead of villain's range but the bet is "thin".. these situations come up a lot and are really important to win rate.

If villain called with less then J high that's a thin value bet.

Peace, bout to sit at the table and turn my phone off. See you guys tomorrow hopefully.

Having finished collecting chips from The Strip, I have moved onto hand lotion and mini shampoos.

FWIW I would consider a river bet in that 89s hand standard. I would only think it was thin to bet the turn with the intention of 3barreling. I don't say that to be nitty, but to point out that given that imo most LLSNLers are not v-betting in way to many good spots.

And PB, it seems you're thinking of "thin" in absolute terms. Like "I have AK and I flopped an A which is a strong hand, so its not thin". Which isn't true, because 3barreling an A2349 is relatively thin and could sometimes be correct. Something becomes "thin" as it gets closer to the break-even line. This depends mostly on board texture.

If this is a misinterpretation of what you are saying, shrug. But its the only reason I can think of that you are so focused on how tight we play PF. You can make "thin" v-bets with AA on bad boards, so thin v-betting in no way depends on how tight you play PF.

I'm assuming you won? Whenever I decide to do something silly like that, they snap-call QJ and own me.

yes I won. and no misread because he stared shocked at the 983 x x board. 10 - 7 is the only hand that makes a little sense, usully someone just wanted to see what you were betting when some freak showdown happens.

I once called down with KQ hi when it looked like a oesd betting and it was but it was lolimit hold'em.

last night the reg woman in my game called 300 almost psb otr with AJ hi. Board was like Q Q 8 5 9. She read right, on it being a tiny busted flush draw.

today I made a great thin value bet
I open in EP with 89s, get 4 callers
Flop is A95 ($53)
checks through
Turn is a 8 ($53)
I bet $30, BB c/calls
River is a 7 ($113)
checks, I bet $55, he calls before I put my chips out and says "I dont put you on a 6"
I show my two pair and its good.

Fish are biting tonight! Weeeeeeee! Repop AA big from the BB. Fish calls. Board is Q-x-x. I bet 3/4 pot. Fish snap calls, and has well under pot behind. Turn adds a gutter for (2-4-5 or something). I ship and get SNAP called. I think I ran into a set. River bricks. I show, and he shows JJ. And yes, he put me on AK.

To be clear, just because I might have successfully been able to translate what pokah said, doesn't mean I'm agreeing with his position, or saying it's everyone elses fault for not understanding his point.

Yes, I'm educated (law school etc), but I also am very good at figuring out wtf people mean in various situations. If 1 in 5 people or less understand what you're trying to say, you probably aren't communicating your point well enough.

FWIW, I really don' think that's what he was saying and I think you bailed him out. But I don't really know, maybe you're right and I guess it doesn't really matter.

All I know, is the chat thread is boring now.

And I'm currently in law school Jmurder. And it sucks. The whole month before finals. All of it. Doing research on friday and saturday nights is pretty awesome.

That's why I said 'might'. Hard to say really, but that was my impression of what he was trying to say in his own unique way.

I'm a lazy azz. I got through law school doing over 90% of my reading at the pool

Where do you go to school?

You really don't think you're going to be prosecuting cases when you get out, do you? The only difference is that you'll be reading stuff at the urinal to keep up your billable hours and doing research 7 days a week.

And that's if you're lucky. The average lawyer makes less practicing law than the average teacher makes.

Thanks Venice.

And Jmurder, I go to Georgetown.

Are you a lawyeR?


Jack, we're now talking poker in the law school thread.

Do you fingerbang with karak?

I don't know Karak.

And Venice, trust me, you don't need to tell current law students about the bleak future facing many(most?) of us.