lol ya i thought someone might point that out. believe me, i pretty much never do this (i.e. raise a straddle pot with garbage at a fishy table)

the reason i did it was because i had good reads on all 3 villains behind and i wanted to get heads up IP with the fishy villain, despite having such a poor hand. (all 3 villains behind tended towards tight, so the likelihood of going multiway to the flop was low. straddle was a woman and the tightest of the 3, so i expected her to fold to $20 most of the time with no callers in front. also they were rather transparent post flop, so i wasn't in horrible shape regardless.)

ya i know. this was a very risky play, and i thought about it later and concluded it was probably bad. i very very rarely bet big into fish as pure bluffs relying on FE that we probly don't have.

i did have my reasons though. this was purely reads based.

he was sitting directly to my right so i could watch him closely during each bet, and on the river i pretended to count my 100 stack out while watching him and his movements seemed to confirm my suspicions from his body language on previous streets when i bet, which was that he was on a draw rather than having a medium showdown value hand like Ax that he would probably call river with.

i showed and he claimed to have had 95, which would have been a bit surprising if it was true, since i figured he was more likely to have connectors given preflop action, which is why the 5 OTR didn't really scare me (i check back a 6 or 9, maybe a 4 or J too, and any diamond).

but ya, believe me this was extremely outta line for me... thus the brag, heh

If you have to work that hard to come up with rationalizations for such a spewy play, then you should probably reconsider the way you approach the game.

Not trying to be mean since you do seem like you genuinely want to play well, but there's so many things wrong in that post you just made that I'd highly recommend just playing more straightforward until the more studly postflop plays become instinctually right and second nature to you rather than something you do on a whim and it happening to work out this one time.

the whole point of my last post was that it wasn't on a whim. i didn't come up with the rationalizations, these are the things that were going through my head during the hand.

but anyway, what are the things that are wrong? i'm always interested in learning

opening to 10x with an offsuit 9 high being one...

Il grunch later, but you put 200ish into this pot with no hand no real draw. At a winrate of $10 an hour thats pretty much 20hrs of work possibly incinerated to win around 5 in blinds.

Il grunch later off the phone, but yeah, 9 high = bad...

ya i know. i never said this was a good play. i was asking in rilievo what he thought was wrong with my post about justifications. i'm well aware i had an ass hand

1. Doing this any time is bad. Doing it in situations when you don't need to balance is worse.

2. Doing it with a hand with 0 equity is worse still. 3 players still in the hand. 94o is horrid.

3. If you convince yourself you did it for any other reason than you were bored you are 99% kidding yourself.

4. River shows the heart and commitment to the game. Tony G is proud.

5. Begrudgingly accepting point 3 will make you more money than any marginal hand you ever choose to post in the main forum.

its true, there was no need to balance at this table

are you suggesting i post marginal hands?

94o is the narginal hand he is referencing, and yes, the self-discipline to fold is what makes a big difference to winrates in showdown based nl games

Not suggesting that. Just realise that even in against lol bad villains our edge can be wiped out by one needless big mistake.

i agree. i'm not defending this hand too much TBH. but it wasn't boredom. it may have been a little FPS-ish. but my rationale made sense at the time. i do agree, though, that it was a needlessly risky play, against this villain, whom i could pick a million better spots against.

Your raise size is ridiculous. You barreled on a turn card that isnt getting any folds and anything he called with on the flop isn´t folding to a 1/2 pot bet. Nor did you get paid off on a miracle river, if you knew he was weak there bet 1/5 of the pot if you think he can call it.

This is bad against a good player but worse against a fish.

Planning to three barrel ace high boards without a reason isn´t a great plan against almost all players. This noob could easily have AT+ and call down.

what miracle river? have a look at the HH again. i have 9-high

btw, i was intentionally underbetting, since you can get away with it against these players. they don't have a bite point at any portion of the pot; instead, they look at how much chips they have to call and decide if they wanna gamble. villain had no idea what his odds were. you can underbet liberally against these players b/c they play the same as if you bet 2/3 pot but it's cheaper for you.

of course people are going to berate you for a play that you make maybe once a year.

i think you played the hand fine.

fish fold flops 2/3 of the time when they miss and they will fold 99% of the time when you show lots of aggression.

its a good point to be made that you can get into trouble because fish call too much rather than fold too much

I thought you rivered a straight the first time i looked at it. It still makes the cut for a wtf hand.

ya, fair 'nuf. i guess i'd be disappointed in the 2+2 community if this hand didn't receive a bunch of "you are a moron" replies.

i was glad i had the right read on the strength of his hand though. i remember watching him react to me counting out the $100 stack OTR, deciding he was definitely weak and likely to fold to such a large bet (in absolute terms), and then being so surprised when he started pulling out a stack and looked like he might call. i guess his hand improved OTR so he was tempted.

other than that, ya this is a poor move to try and make and i pretty much never do it. if the table hadn't been short handed i wouldn't even have found myself in this spot b/c i would obviously fold pre flop EVERY time. but the specific villains left at the table, and the positions in which they found themselves in this situation, made it tempting to try this play.

anyway, for a less ******ed hand (hopefully), see this week's PAHWM! hosted by me bitchaz

1/3 NL last night

2 limpers, SB completes, I rap 86s in the big blind.

Flop AK4 rainbow. Checked around.

Turn 3. Checked around.

River 7. SB open mucks, the rest of us check it round.

MHIG.

SB claims she mucks T high.

Gmoralofthestory:neveropenmuckG

1/3 last night

Idiot raises. Gambloor calls. Idiot leads for pot, gambloor pushes for all the reds in his stack (about $150) leaving $10 in white chips behind, he's on a flush draw with overs. Idiot thinks and thinks and thinks and finally calls. The turn and river blank off, and the Idiot finally bets $10 (into a $330 pot), which would put the Gambloorer all in. Gambloorer makes a crying call with J high and his hand is good in a $350 pot.

The Idiot's reasoning for calling the huge overbet on the flop with T high / no draw? "I knew he was drawing".

Gawesomeawesomeawesometablelastnight,theywereprint ingmoneyG

so me and this guy who sat on the table for around 30 minutes and just talking about random stuff. I told him he looked like Edward Norton but he's never seen fight club before? Well anyways I saw him play his flop full house (he was sb) by leading minbetting/4bet a 3better for his flop line but the 3bettor folded.

So he's like UTG +3 and I'm 2 positions to his left with A8o

he limps $2 ($200) (pot:$5)

2 folds and Hero raises to $10

its folded around to my villian chatty friend (no not really just knew him for 30 mins :P) and he calls.

I said, "Oh boy you and me eh? I have a bad feeling about this!"

"oh don't you worry, I'm going to take the pot down because I have aces."

In my mind I think, "Yeah right, I'm pretty sure he's the kind of guy who would raise with that kind of hand very rarely people will limp/raise with aces unless he was short stack in my experience."

So I simply said, "Oh yeah? I guess I better watch out!"

flop 10 8 4 ($20)

He checks to me and I bet $15
He then instant min check raises me to $30 total ($50)

Then he said, "C'mon what you going to do? I got Aces man, you better just go all in now? Or better yet raise me again!"

I sat there giving him a weird look then looking around the table to see other player's reactions. But since its a min bet I have to call and see if he fires again on the turn and the river.

another 10 came i forgot what suit it was but forgive me. And the villian leads out 30$ into a 65$ pot. Still with the angle talking he kept inducing me to raise or to even get it all in. I finally tanked for a minute and said to him, "I'll just call instead." Using the excuse in my mind, "Its less likey he has a ten now! But damn he could limp call a raise with a Tx hand easily lets see if he fires one more time on the river."

and the 4 came so the board read

10 8 4 10 4 forgot the suits the pot was $130 at this point.

Then he leads out for another $50 and I was really in the tank, looking around the table for sympathy. The villian got cockier and was still sticking with his angling to the point the dealer said, "Ok enough angling." and I replied, "Its ok let him."

I finally said, "I can only beat a bluff, but when they talk so much they are usually strong." and if I were to call my stack would be dropped to $150 if I am wrong. So i simply said, "screw it if I'm wrong I'll go home and let the dog go pee." I called and proudly flip over my hand, and he looked at his hand and said, "your good" Throwing his hand into the muck.

I put my hands in my face and sighed a relief like I won the bad beat jackpot and the villian said, "haha man just ****ing with you made it all worth it."

Comments? Opinions? It was my biggest pot of the session.

Villian sucks at bluffing.

i would be trying to get this all in on the flop

edgewater?

I think OPs line is fine. Personally I'd fold the flop and wait for a better spot, but hey... I'm a nit. If you don't want to fold, though, calling down is better than raising at any point.

Raising the flop is almost as expensive as calling the turn and river bets here. What happens by raising the flop, though, is that you're not getting any more value from hands you beat. Villain will simply never call a raise with worse. Instead, if you just call the flop, you get additional value from second and possibly third barrels with air, with villain usually only having 6 outs or less to counterfeit you.

Not sure how well this will fly, but if you have a hand that you played and took down a huge pot (500+ BB's) post it here.

Coincidentally, I took one last night.

The setup: Seat 1 is a young kid complete with headphones, a hoodie, and a slightly askew FTP baseball hat. He thinks he is a much better player than he is. Seat 9 is a spew-monkey of impressive magnitude. He is an old man that has been drinking steadily for about 5 hours when I arrived and his chips are in a messy pile in front of him, probably because he is too drunk to stack them without knocking them over. When he calls, he puts chips in the pot 3-6 at a time regardless of the size of the bet. He will raise UTG with any two cards and limp-call raises OOP with any two cards. He will also defend his blinds with ATC. I raised to $12 in a previous hand with QQ and checked the river behind so I could see his cards and he called my raise with 10-4 suited and check-called two streets with bottom pair. The kid is aware of his spewiness and had aces cracked by him a few hands earlier when he raised to $50 preflop in a limped pot. Drunk Old Man called him and caught a straight on the river with J-9 offsuit to take a $500 pot down. He is tilting like a 3-legged bar stool right now.

The hand:

I have about $400-ish. Kid has $250 or maybe $300. DOM covers both by a lot.

Someone raised to $10. DOM and the Kid call, and I call out of the small blind with 9-9. We see a flop 4-5 ways (gotta love $1/$2)

Flop:

9 10 7

Normally I would bet here but with these two monkeys the pot I am pretty sure I can get a check-raise in here.

Check-check, DOM 9 bets $15. Kid raises to $50. Folds back to me. I tank for a bit and decide to make it $150 to go. DOM CALLS THE 150! Kid tanks and finally says, "I'm not good enough to fold this, sorry" and shoves for about $80 more. I call and so does DOM.

Before the turn card even comes out, I announce that I am all-in in the dark for about $190 more.

Dealer puts out a horrifying 8

DOM tanks for about 3-4 minutes and finally calls.

River is a 3

We all showed. DOM had K-5 for the busted flush draw and the Kid had 10-6 for top & bottom pair.

I tipped the dealer two redbirds and counted down the pot. It was just over $1100.

Is that sick or what?

Im assuming the kid has T7 not T6....

Id rather T6 on that board then 99 ducy...

Oops. I screwed up the hand history.

Board was: 10 9 6 8 3

Makes a lot more sense now.