Hi guys I would like your feedback on a hand that I played at a 1/2 NL live table yesterday.

UTG limps
MP1 raises to 6
Hero calls in the CO with 8 9
The blinds both call and Villain (UTG) calls as well.

Flop comes 6 7 K $24 in pot

SB, BB, and UTG check ... MP1 shoves for $37 ... Hero???

After MP1 shoves the effective stacks will be mine $150 since UTG has over $400 behind...
My question here is do you call behind, 3 bet or shove?? If you call and UTG calls do you shove turn on a blank?? If I 3 bet and UTG 4 bets do you shove then???

UTG is loose aggressive and a bit of a maniac. I have seen him open raise with Q4 suited and call a raise with J4 suited from EP...

Your feedback is highly appreciated!

Raise.

All you have is a draw. Just call and allow others to come in behind you thus potentially building a bit pot for you. Since you only have $150 behind, you're not going anywhere; and anyone who wants to gamble with you can do so.

Build side pot, call, call/shove if raised, get $ in with your stack.

Call.

You don't want to create fold equity because you're almost certainly already behind MP1, who either has a made hand or a better non-made hand.

Another reason you don't want to generate fold equity is that you can't win the pot outright with fold equity because MP1 is already all-in.

Since you can't win the pot by raising, you want to encourage others to come along by calling to provide additional overlay to enhance your odds for your strong combo draw.

The plan is call flop (and never fold), and then shove any turn assuming you get there. The ideal situation is you call the flop and get one or two more callers, thereby building the main pot. Then you shove any turn and generate as much fold equity as you can at that time and hopefully get others to fold.

This.

Raising does absolutely nothing but cost you money all the times you do get there. Getting the rest of the field to fold is bad for you. Flat call/never fold.

Fold pre. As played just call. No need to bloat the pot with a s flush draw

Agree I like calling... Def GII if raised

Why?

Because most of this forum are nits.

OP call and reevaluate the turn.

Thanks Willyoman for your feedback! I called a turn bet from UTG but didn't shove the turn. I don't believe flat calling a turn raise is horrible. Your thoughts??

With the nfd of course we're flatting. With the non-nfd (I know we have straight outs too), don't you guys want to fold out the better fds? I want to fold out JThh, QThh, QJhh and be HU and take our equity against $37ai guy.

BV hates suited connectors.

But really should fold speculative hands pre with only 75bbs.

I just rip it in here but calling is fine too.

98s in co for a mere $6 can not be folded preflop except in unusually circumstances.

H has openended straight flush draw. H is better than 50-50 to hit flush or straight.

With this flop H is absolutely looking to get his stack in.

no need to fold pre on this one. We're in late position and the raise size is tiny.

I prefer calling and getting others in the pot here. Don't fold if raised behind you. There is some merit to getting higher flush draws out, but there is also merit to keeping them in and getting fat value when we hit our straight on the turn (and they're drawing to two fewer outs than they realize), and also when we bink our straight flush and get their stack.

Not the right plan imo.

1. No one is folding a better flush draw.

2. If they do fold, it's < 25% of the time they hold them.

3. You're targeting like 3 combos. Very very small part of ranges and for this reason as well as the reasons above, these are not the hands that should significantly determine your strategy in this situation.

Hey Willyoman I was thinking about another play that can be made in this spot. If I invite more people into the pot my equity has just decreased and I will not be a favorite against 3 opponents so wouldn't shoving the flop and playing heads up where I know I have more than 50% equity against MP1's range be the best approach in this situation instead of building a monster pot and being an underdog??

Your total % equity is probably less, but if your draw is good, your % equity doesn't actually go down that much. But you are right - your % does go down.

But your +EV chip equity goes up. That's what we care about.

With this draw, your % equity goes down at a far lower rate than your chip equity increases. In other words, for every x% your hand equity decreases, your cEV probably goes up by x+1. This increases your EV a lot while increasing variance a low to moderate amount.

I sense you're talking more about variance than actual cEV. Yes, you lose the pot more often, and winning and losing is a binary outcome. But you win more chips. Lose more pots, win more chips. That's good variance, and if you make the most +cEV play each time, you'll profit.

Just because the odds of you winning the hand may go down doesn't mean it's less profitable. Which of these spots would you prefer?

Having a 50% chance of winning a $100 pot
OR
Having a 30% chance of winning a $250 pot

Make it like 90/call

With 2 opponents, you only have to win 33% of the time, not 50%.

Def raise here, dont want other people to come along with higher flushdraws. I'm jamming.

Dont ever fold preflop, also dont flat this flop. I assume 95% of this forum is a breakeven nit wearing headphones and hoodies thinking theyre the new Ungar. Losers

I believe the math works out that you should call the flop and bet at least $75 on the turn and since hero would only have about $110 after calling the flop he might as well shove.

However, H may well be just about 50-50 v. MP1 but is probably more along the lines of a 55-45 dog.

I disagree that you want other potential callers to fold on the turn.
If H is all-in the more callers the greater EV even if they are drawing to better flushes or straights.

Nice post - Your math is wrong and you insult people who are trying to improve their game.

That's absurd.

Quiz: What % of the time do villains fold JThh or better flush draws?

How about 0%.