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Is this an obvious river spot? Is this an obvious river spot?

03-05-2023 , 05:55 PM
This was a self dealt pub game, $1/$1, no rake.

Hero has been at the table for about 15 minutes. Action is generally quite loose and aggressive, opens $12 standard, lots of 3-betting. Some OK regs at the table.
V1 is a younger new-ish payer, V2 is an aggro player.

Hero has Ah7x LP.

V1 raises $12, and V2 call, I call.

Flop JsQsTh. Pot: ~36

V1 X, V2 bets $15, I call, UTG folds, V1 calls.

Turn: Kh. Pot: ~$81.

V1 X, V2 bets $40, I only call, V1 calls.

River: Qh, Pot: ~$200. Borad: JsQsTh Kh Qh

V1 leads $100, V2 calls.

Hero?
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-05-2023 , 06:26 PM
Fold pre, fold flop. Raise big on turn.

River? Easy fold. New player passively calls down and then makes a 100bb river donk bet is unlikely anything else but strength. This might be a tougher decision if you have a small boat or even flush, but as played, I would need to be convinced not to fold.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-05-2023 , 06:34 PM
Since the flush got there river is an easy fold. You could easily be the third best hand. At the very least even if V1 is making a spazz bluff V2 should never have a worse hand.
You should never have gotten to the river here because preflop is a trivial fold.
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03-05-2023 , 07:22 PM
Stacks?

Generally I agree with everything Tanqueray said, but stacks do matter.
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03-05-2023 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray
Fold pre, fold flop. Raise big on turn.

River? Easy fold. New player passively calls down and then makes a 100bb river donk bet is unlikely anything else but strength. This might be a tougher decision if you have a small boat or even flush, but as played, I would need to be convinced not to fold.
This guy gets it.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-06-2023 , 08:19 AM
I haven't played poker for a while and this was my first game in like a year. I know to trivially fold pre but this was a fish game and honestly don't care too much about the money and just want a fun night. This was low stakes for me as I usually play 9/5.

I thought for a long time and folded, but then saw V1 turn over a 9J and V2 turn over K9. Felt like a tard for folding there so came here to find out if I maybe lost the way after not playing for a while. But at least the fold wasn't so bad.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-06-2023 , 08:21 AM
V2 was drunk and actually prematurely showed me his 9 thinking that I folded (while I was nearly folding in my head), so I folded after that out of curtesy too lol.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-06-2023 , 08:26 AM
V1 was on a streak, has me covered. V2 $400. Me $500.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-06-2023 , 11:24 AM
Wow what an insane result. This looked like an easy fold to me as well. I figured you were calling for a chop at best here. Seems impossible that you would have the best hand three ways. Great game to be in!
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03-06-2023 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray
It’s not an insane result. [mod edit: insult removed]
Huh? You posted in this thread yourself that river is an easy fold. You don't think it's crazy that both of the other players show up with the low end of the straight here given the action? Not sure why it's necessary to insult me or any of the other posters in this thread.

Last edited by Garick; 03-06-2023 at 07:20 PM.
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03-06-2023 , 02:08 PM
It was and still is an easy fold with little to no relevant information.

But it's clear that OP omitted key information.

It's just interesting to me that there are many of you that think these HH discussions will make you a better player. You are literally running in circles only to find out that the result is that improbable 5% because OP gave you nothing.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-06-2023 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray
It was and still is an easy fold with little to no relevant information.

But it's clear that OP omitted key information.

It's just interesting to me that there are many of you that think these HH discussions will make you a better player. You are literally running in circles only to find out that the result is that improbable 5% because OP gave you nothing.
OP says he was at the table for ~15 minutes prior to this hand. I'm not trolling or trying to argue but do you think that 15 minutes is enough time to observe enough of these two villains such that you would make this river call? It's entirely possible OP didn't see a single showdown from either of these guys prior to playing this hand and, to call this river, I would think one would have to know that both of these guys are capable of serious spew.
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03-06-2023 , 02:27 PM
Didn't mean to insult you, my bad. My words were meant for OP and those that put out these HH's that do offer nothing but disservice to anyone trying to solve them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan GK
OP says he was at the table for ~15 minutes prior to this hand. I'm not trolling or trying to argue but do you think that 15 minutes is enough time to observe enough of these two villains such that you would make this river call? It's entirely possible OP didn't see a single showdown from either of these guys prior to playing this hand and, to call this river, I would think one would have to know that both of these guys are capable of serious spew.
The line is indicative of strength from majority of LLSNL players. It still is strength for both players - it's not like they understand the concept of merging.

Perceived strength vs relative vs absolute are three completely different scales. It takes skills and experience to be able to read them accurately. In most of these HH's, the participants are either missing key information or do not know how to use it even if one was provided. Under such conditions, any discussion becomes the byproduct of variance and yields very little value.

Last edited by Tanqueray; 03-06-2023 at 02:33 PM.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-06-2023 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray
Didn't mean to insult you, my bad. My words were meant for OP and those that put out these HH's that do offer nothing but disservice to anyone trying to solve them.
No worries. It's not entirely incorrect to describe me as a poker n00b anyway, especially when compared to many of the posters on this board.
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03-06-2023 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray
The line is indicative of strength from majority of LLSNL players. It still is strength for both players - it's not like they understand the concept of merging.

Perceived strength vs relative vs absolute are three completely different scales. It takes skills and experience to be able to read them accurately.
In other words, those that have experience and the skills, could read the room and the players involved and have a pretty good idea how these players may approach poker.

It's clear that both of these players thought their straight with the 9 is very strong.

If I knew that everyone were drinking, including V2 being drunk, a call is a no-brainer. Under such condition, I would just call turn (instead of raising) with intention of calling off any bet on river.
Is this an obvious river spot? Quote
03-13-2023 , 01:29 AM
Based on the preflop action, it's likely that V1 and V2 have a wide range of hands. However, given V1's raise and subsequent call on the flop, it's possible that they have a strong hand, possibly a straight or a flush. V2's aggressive play also suggests a wide range, but with their call on the river, it's possible they have a strong hand as well.

Considering the board and the action, hero has a weak hand with only ace high. The $100 bet by V1 is a significant portion of hero's remaining stack, so calling is risky. It's possible that V1 has a strong hand, and V2's call on the river also suggests strength. Hero would need to be correct more than 50% of the time to justify a call.

Given the limited information about the players and their ranges, and the significant risk involved in calling, the optimal decision based on GTO theory would be to fold. While it's possible that hero may be folding the winning hand, it's important to consider the overall profitability of the decision in the long run.
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03-15-2023 , 03:54 PM
What? Lol
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03-19-2023 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luz4ggro
Based on the preflop action, it's likely that V1 and V2 have a wide range of hands. However, given V1's raise and subsequent call on the flop, it's possible that they have a strong hand, possibly a straight or a flush. V2's aggressive play also suggests a wide range, but with their call on the river, it's possible they have a strong hand as well.

Considering the board and the action, hero has a weak hand with only ace high. The $100 bet by V1 is a significant portion of hero's remaining stack, so calling is risky. It's possible that V1 has a strong hand, and V2's call on the river also suggests strength. Hero would need to be correct more than 50% of the time to justify a call.

Given the limited information about the players and their ranges, and the significant risk involved in calling, the optimal decision based on GTO theory would be to fold. While it's possible that hero may be folding the winning hand, it's important to consider the overall profitability of the decision in the long run.
Is this a ChatGPT response?
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03-19-2023 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Is this a ChatGPT response?

It definitely matches the style of ChatGPT.
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03-20-2023 , 11:19 AM
I can hear Siri's voice reading it to me.
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