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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

02-24-2022 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize
Not questioning the following for preflop b/c given table dynamics I think limp call here is fine...

2/5 8 handed , $700 effective, Hero has played 4 hands in 2 hours, literally card dead so have very tight image, whole table is bad/weak passive other than young guy to my immediate left who I don't know before tonight, he's been quite active, only person capable of running a bluff, (Covers) rest of table nobody has >$700, staying here because it's the softest game available despite my lousy image. OTTH

Hero open limps 88xx UTG, again because I have the only good player to my direct left and nobody else is going to 3-bet light I don't want to raise fold here given these specific dynamics, I either raise pre, get no action or maybe one call and win $20 if I bet flop and they fold, that type of table, so I decide to limp here given I've only opened three other hands.

V utg+ 1 raises $30, 1 fold, young Spanish guy dosent really know what he's doing, calls ($350-400), folds to H who calls.

Flop ($90) : 723r (one diamond). Hero checks, UTG+1 Checks, MP Checks

Turn Qd ; H checks, UTG bets $30 MP folds, H calls

River ($150) Qc . Hero checks, UTG bets $100.

Getting 2.5 : 1 I assume this is a snap given he obv shouldn't have overpairs often enough and will have a4/a5/45 combos and all diamond combos and he's been seeing me fold for two hours basically....

?
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02-24-2022 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by garicasha
How about people’s appearance as a tell?

Was just playing against a 60s woman, kinda sloppy, smoking a cig, probably had a lot of fun in the 70s and 80s.

I just got the impression that she didn’t have a lot of impulse control, and therefore if she gets a big hand, probably gonna shove or make huge bets.
Good one. I'm 60-ish, look old to the poker kidz. Played PLO with some guys for the first time the other night and one immediately says, "Well this guy will never pull the dry ace move." Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Well I've been doing it since before he was born easy. I made some kind of comment.

Sure enough dry ace opp came up immediately. Other dude, also my age but an obvious reg in the game, bet 50, I check raised to about 300, he mini-tanked because of the comment I just made about dry ace, whoops. But he folded and I showed the dry ace. In fact I turned it up but one card obscured ... he reached over and spread my hand. Not sure if that is legal pretty sure no.

Anyway, these kinds of reads are great but need constant monitoring.
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02-24-2022 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManastaR
I've played poker around two decades. Before I learned about putting people on ranges of hand, I used to do specific reads of the one hand I think he was holding in his hand.
I've got pretty sick good at this. I'm kind of blind to the occasional aces and bad reads, but most often when I take everything in (his bet sizing habits, the situation, table dynamic, timing, etc.) I get a read that is fairly accurate or exactly what he has.

My problem comes when he moves all-in. I got my read. He moves all-in as I thought he would. Now my mind splits.

On one hand, I'm thinking : you have the best hand in a vacuum, if he moves all-in a million times you win, he's all-in, you have too call, this is your whole strategy to have the best hand when all the chips are in the middle.
On the other hand, I end up in a lot of marginal spots. I'm like 1% ahead, 5% ahead most of the time, and it just -feels- like I always lose those not-really-a-flip-but-close-enough, or the 75% vs 25%... I'm thinking to myself, oh ****, ****, he can actually might win this hand with the 5 cards I don't know that's going to drop down. Now i'm even at the point that, I know I have the best hand, but his all-in scares the **** out of me because I might get sucked out just because he flops a king with king-jack, and that's not like, that's not a one outer, it's not inconceivable he flops a jack.

My question is this : Regardless of ICM consideration. When he moves all-in, and his all-in is my all-in or a good enough chunk of my stack that could alter my next few rounds of table to be forced to play fit or all-in. When is it okay to fold my read of having the best hand, for the sole purpose of saving my stack from a potential suck-out/race? I'm so destroyed when this happen, I'm like, here we go, I got such an edge on these guys, when I see the flop my EV goes way up, and my EV goes even way higher when I can just coast along and coast along and just maintain a relative same amount of blinds until my all-in is at 90%+ chances of winning. Really, like ****ing really, I just feel like I'm losing doing my sick preflop reads, I just get beat the **** up by miss luck because I had a small edge, in a spot that if I didn't do a read, I could just easily fold if I'd put him on what his all in looks like instead of what his all in and all other factors combined means to me. It actually feels like I'm real unlucky in this very spot.

In case it isn't clear : the core of my question is around the concepts of saving my stack from a potential suck-out made out from a potentially valid read that gets owned because I get stacked. What is the very fine line between folding the best hand not to get stacked, because there is so MUCH value in being tougher to stack vs aggression that forces 5 blind cards.
Same here kind of. Used to be pretty darn good at putting on exact hands, but that was in the day of very unsophisticated, predictable play. Doesn't work against the new wave. Had a buddy that was the scariest I've seen at calling hands. Not any more against the current playing styles.
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02-25-2022 , 04:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
yes, I agree totally.

In hand 1 I really think a straightforward player like she was bets out with the straight so I think the only hand that beats me is AQ. I also agree that a $50 type bet may be the best solution here. (although I can imagine some kind of Michael Addamo 300bb shove in the SHRs in a spot like this)

hand 2 was a huge mistake and honestly, if I can't play these spots better, I should fold pre, despite how sexy the hand looks at first glance. I do have thousands of hours of live play but I'm not playing much at all these days and I find myself with less of a strategic structure of 'how to play' than I used to. I actually played a very similar multiway spot against a good reg 4/5 years ago and played it exactly the same and got equally punished.

the other issue with betting is that I kind of have to call given pot odds and the number of draws an unknown might shove, so I called the shove and was shown the nut straight and it turned a moderate winning night into a small loser.

Addamo is a stone cold killer and he is the tournament streets Tom Dwan imo. Or at least he reminds me of Dwan alot. Very interesting to watch him play.

And yeah, there is little to no substitute for actual playing time. I can understand where you come from regarding to feeling rusty when you dont get much volume in. Poker is about being in the zone and being tuned into the dynamics of the games, and such takes alot of playing time to achieve.

I have a couple of guys in my poker circle who played quite alot a few years back, their game was pretty sharp at that point. But they havent played much the last 2 years or so due to family, covid and other life stuff- and their game got real rusty due to such a long break from playing regurarly. Its almost like exercising, being in good shape is a fresh type of thing that disappears if you quit exercising for a while.
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02-25-2022 , 04:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
Addamo is a stone cold killer and he is the tournament streets Tom Dwan imo. Or at least he reminds me of Dwan alot. Very interesting to watch him play.

And yeah, there is little to no substitute for actual playing time. I can understand where you come from regarding to feeling rusty when you dont get much volume in. Poker is about being in the zone and being tuned into the dynamics of the games, and such takes alot of playing time to achieve.

I have a couple of guys in my poker circle who played quite alot a few years back, their game was pretty sharp at that point. But they havent played much the last 2 years or so due to family, covid and other life stuff- and their game got real rusty due to such a long break from playing regurarly. Its almost like exercising, being in good shape is a fresh type of thing that disappears if you quit exercising for a while.
my biggest mistake is that I call too much. When you're only playing 4-6 hours a week, the tendency to play more hands and try to get lucky is overpowering at times.

but then I am also losing my mojo in post flop situations an awful lot
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02-25-2022 , 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
my biggest mistake is that I call too much. When you're only playing 4-6 hours a week, the tendency to play more hands and try to get lucky is overpowering at times.

but then I am also losing my mojo in post flop situations an awful lot

This is significantly real in my experience. I used to play 4-6 hours/week pre pandemic and my swings were all over the place. I’d feel like I needed to play pots because I didn’t know the next time I was going to play because I didn’t have a set schedule.

I’ve started playing more, and on a general schedule, and I feel more comfortable playing. I don’t mind passing on marginal spots because I know I’ll be back tomorrow or the next day. Having that knowledge is also great when I’m card dead. I just leave or keep folding knowing tomorrow is another day.
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02-25-2022 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize
?
Yikes, I'll take the silence as a "call"
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02-25-2022 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize
Yikes, I'll take the silence as a "call"

Your positions are all messed up - it gave me a headache. One minute you’re limping UTG and the next UTG is betting out

It makes a real difference whether villain open limped or overlimped
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02-25-2022 , 07:22 PM
1/3 Last night I’m in the BB with K5s, UTG+1 opens to $12 and gets 4 callers.

I folded, but wondering if a call is okay getting 6.5:1?
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02-25-2022 , 07:31 PM
Don't call. You're basically 2p mining OOP. No beuno.
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02-26-2022 , 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
Your positions are all messed up - it gave me a headache. One minute you’re limping UTG and the next UTG is betting out

It makes a real difference whether villain open limped or overlimped
Sorry didn't realize I missed that, on turn and Riv, V is UTG+1. He isod my limp to $30 pre, got a call, I limp called.
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02-27-2022 , 07:02 AM
Jeezus two trips in a row players rudely smarting off about taking the min version of must straddle option ... indirect comments about "a-holes don't straddle double." Two different guys neither ever seen me. Incredibly rude and out of line, imo. Last night dude said it then won one, got up and walked leaving no straddle. Dealer grabbed it from his stack. I quit. Already short handed, star just busto. I mean I'm certainly not surprised but this kind of stuff iss just routine now, I guess.
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02-27-2022 , 07:45 AM
helluva story bro
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02-27-2022 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize
Not questioning the following for preflop b/c given table dynamics I think limp call here is fine...

2/5 8 handed , $700 effective, Hero has played 4 hands in 2 hours, literally card dead so have very tight image, whole table is bad/weak passive other than young guy to my immediate left who I don't know before tonight, he's been quite active, only person capable of running a bluff, (Covers) rest of table nobody has >$700, staying here because it's the softest game available despite my lousy image. OTTH

Hero open limps 88xx UTG, again because I have the only good player to my direct left and nobody else is going to 3-bet light I don't want to raise fold here given these specific dynamics, I either raise pre, get no action or maybe one call and win $20 if I bet flop and they fold, that type of table, so I decide to limp here given I've only opened three other hands.

V utg+ 1 raises $30, 1 fold, young Spanish guy dosent really know what he's doing, calls ($350-400), folds to H who calls.

Flop ($90) : 723r (one diamond). Hero checks, UTG+1 Checks, MP Checks

Turn Qd ; H checks, UTG bets $30 MP folds, H calls

River ($150) Qc . Hero checks, UTG bets $100.

Getting 2.5 : 1 I assume this is a snap given he obv shouldn't have overpairs often enough and will have a4/a5/45 combos and all diamond combos and he's been seeing me fold for two hours basically....
I snap this off without a second thought.
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02-27-2022 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize
Not questioning the following for preflop b/c given table dynamics I think limp call here is fine...

2/5 8 handed , $700 effective, Hero has played 4 hands in 2 hours, literally card dead so have very tight image, whole table is bad/weak passive other than young guy to my immediate left who I don't know before tonight, he's been quite active, only person capable of running a bluff, (Covers) rest of table nobody has >$700, staying here because it's the softest game available despite my lousy image. OTTH

Hero open limps 88xx UTG, again because I have the only good player to my direct left and nobody else is going to 3-bet light I don't want to raise fold here given these specific dynamics, I either raise pre, get no action or maybe one call and win $20 if I bet flop and they fold, that type of table, so I decide to limp here given I've only opened three other hands.

V utg+ 1 raises $30, 1 fold, young Spanish guy dosent really know what he's doing, calls ($350-400), folds to H who calls.

Flop ($90) : 723r (one diamond). Hero checks, UTG+1 Checks, MP Checks

Turn Qd ; H checks, UTG bets $30 MP folds, H calls

River ($150) Qc . Hero checks, UTG bets $100.

Getting 2.5 : 1 I assume this is a snap given he obv shouldn't have overpairs often enough and will have a4/a5/45 combos and all diamond combos and he's been seeing me fold for two hours basically....


Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dude_174
I snap this off without a second thought.

This ^^^

It’s a terrible bluff card and maybe he has Qx, but he should have a ton of other stuff if he can bluff
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02-27-2022 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52
Jeezus two trips in a row players rudely smarting off about taking the min version of must straddle option ... indirect comments about "a-holes don't straddle double." Two different guys neither ever seen me. Incredibly rude and out of line, imo. Last night dude said it then won one, got up and walked leaving no straddle. Dealer grabbed it from his stack. I quit. Already short handed, star just busto. I mean I'm certainly not surprised but this kind of stuff iss just routine now, I guess.
If someone is rude to me, I don't give any action and just play perfect poker instead. If they double down on their rudeness, I let the fish at the table know how the rude players are exploiting them and let them know ways they can stop being exploited so much. Other than that or possibly seat changing to the rude player's direct left, I'd just say quit poker because players are *******s and the game is not that fun nor lucrative.
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02-27-2022 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52
Jeezus two trips in a row players rudely smarting off about taking the min version of must straddle option ... indirect comments about "a-holes don't straddle double." Two different guys neither ever seen me. Incredibly rude and out of line, imo. Last night dude said it then won one, got up and walked leaving no straddle. Dealer grabbed it from his stack. I quit. Already short handed, star just busto. I mean I'm certainly not surprised but this kind of stuff iss just routine now, I guess.
Imagine not identifying/monetizing the free EV they're giving you when they spout off about the type of game in which they prefer to hand you their cash. Flick in the extra $5 or whatever premium and keep the mutants in their chairs until you dust their roll.
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02-27-2022 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
This ^^^

It’s a terrible bluff card and maybe he has Qx, but he should have a ton of other stuff if he can bluff
Yeah he has QJo
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02-27-2022 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
the game is not that fun nor lucrative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cHI3q-dbNM
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02-28-2022 , 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmm...Bacon
1/3 Last night I’m in the BB with K5s, UTG+1 opens to $12 and gets 4 callers.

I folded, but wondering if a call is okay getting 6.5:1?
Give me the nutmaking Axs, and I'm calling. But the comparable profitability of Kxs plummets due to it not making the nuts (and thus having some RIO), and OOP to boot (where it will be difficult to maximize our IO). So I fold. If the 5 other people in the hand are the 5 worst players in the room, ok, whatever.

Gbut,I'malsoagiantnitG
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02-28-2022 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize
Yikes, I'll take the silence as a "call"
Maybe if you bet the flop it's a call but with that free card on the flop it's a little closer to a fold imo
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03-02-2022 , 05:08 PM
I was re reading PNLH volume 1. And obv on high SPR with TPTK hands on flop..I got the feeling we shouldn’t be making large pots with it. However, aren’t we trying to gain value from opponent who’s calling with less? We don’t want to bloat the pot with those type of hands yet I thought betting 2/3 pot each street is for value?

What am I clearly missing ? We can’t be playingTPTK hands weakly and betting small into 1-2 opponents do we? Especially in 1-2 1-3 games
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03-02-2022 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the pleasure
I was re reading PNLH volume 1. And obv on high SPR with TPTK hands on flop..I got the feeling we shouldn’t be making large pots with it. However, aren’t we trying to gain value from opponent who’s calling with less? We don’t want to bloat the pot with those type of hands yet I thought betting 2/3 pot each street is for value?

What am I clearly missing ? We can’t be playingTPTK hands weakly and betting small into 1-2 opponents do we? Especially in 1-2 1-3 games
This is kinda a large crux of the matter of poker... betting large enough / enough of the time for value to get paid off by worse / draws, while at the same time not building too big a pot for the strength of our hand (especially if it starts committing the rest of our stack, which is a disaster if we don't have the best hand).

Gplanoutthehandasbestwecan,imoG
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03-02-2022 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the pleasure
I was re reading PNLH volume 1. And obv on high SPR with TPTK hands on flop..I got the feeling we shouldn’t be making large pots with it. However, aren’t we trying to gain value from opponent who’s calling with less? We don’t want to bloat the pot with those type of hands yet I thought betting 2/3 pot each street is for value?

What am I clearly missing ? We can’t be playingTPTK hands weakly and betting small into 1-2 opponents do we? Especially in 1-2 1-3 games
I think your block is coming from using terms like 'weakly' and 'gain value' and 'calling with less' and thinking things like 'making large pots' and 'bloat'... Instead, focus on what hands you might have in a certain spot, what kind of board you have TPTK on, remind yourself that you're playing a 4 street game, and just try and tune that in with however deep you are.

Fortunately, against 1/2-1/3 opponents, you are just not going to be put to the test for your stack without them broadcasting their actual hand, so, you can just go about smashing away w laughably strong value ranges all things considered and adjust as the board unfolds. Also, if you have TPTK, keep in mind that you still have room to improve and so does your opponent, so, you needn't make yourself nuts about bet sizing in the sense that you should focus on how equities swing on certain cards/boards the times you have TPTK ... and, TPTK might have all kinds of backdoor equity that you can utilize when SPRs are high.
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03-02-2022 , 08:21 PM
thanks guys makes sense, I did think it woudl depend on villain and board context a bit.

i struggle with post flo decisions in knowing "where im at" so I just been trying to hone in on that, ive been put in positions where I I have TPTK on flop, turn seems bricky and then I bet 1/2 pot villain calls then on river my stack is weird. just trying to get better at planning hands and being prepared for decisions.

thank you. ill post HHs more as I play more live
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